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Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743:1845; 2006]

Who will still be standing


  • Total voters
    82
  • Poll closed .
re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

Probably not many...I mean organized religion is about making money....err I mean saving souls and helping people reach everlasting life in the Kingdom of God.

The bible is chock full of stuff that is ignored on a daily basis. If it effects entrants into an organized religion I'm pretty sure it will go the way of burning furniture a woman on her period sits on.
 
re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

Take a look at the sign this politically charged Christian is pumping into the air. Read the words then tell me that's nothing less than a demand. Actually it's more like a threat, which is worse. Thank you for helping me make that clarification, Dezaad. ;)

Oh, please. In your sad little world that amonts to a threat. What it is in reality is a reminder that when gay people are oppressed and as a result in denial, gays tend to marry women in order to prove their straightness. It is not a threat, it is a statement of reality. A tragic reality that ends in sadness for both people. Quite persuasive, yes.
 
re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

Who cares? Homosexuality always has, and always will be, a sin.

"...to me."

That's how you meant to end that comment, I'm sure.
 
re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

Oh, please. In your sad little world that amonts to a threat. What it is in reality is a reminder that when gay people are oppressed and as a result in denial, gays tend to marry women in order to prove their straightness. It is not a threat, it is a statement of reality. A tragic reality that ends in sadness for both people. Quite persuasive, yes.
I'm sure convicted felons feel oppressed too. It's all in the way you look at things.
 
re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

Who cares? Homosexuality always has, and always will be, a sin.

"Sins" do not exist in nature, like stones or mushrooms. They are concepts. If your religious code declares homosexuality a sin - it's fine with me. Don't do it, even if you want to do it badly. I think it is silly, a superstition, but hey, I can respect self-restraint, even so ridiculously misapplied.

Now, above and beyond all tribal and confessional taboos, there is something bigger, something universal, some basic rules of morality - wouldn't you agree? "Do not onto others that you wish not to be done onto yourself". Sounds vaguely familiar?

Nobody wishes to be coerced, by definition. See where I am going with this?
 
re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

"...to me."

That's how you meant to end that comment, I'm sure.
Yes, I'm sure you are sure. ;)
 
re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

Nearly 60 years before the Europeans were to find the New World, we already had the papal condemnation of slavery as soon as this crime was discovered in one of the first of the Portuguese geographical discoveries

Fr. Joel S. Panzer

A quote from the papal bull in question (written in 1435): These people are to be totally and perpetually free and are to be let go without the exaction or reception of any money.

You should always read the full text.

We will that like sentence of excommunication be incurred by one and all who attempt to capture, sell, or subject to slavery, baptized residents if the Canary Islands, or those who are freely seeking Baptism, from which excommunication cannot be absolved except as was stated above.

The protections were to be applied to Christians only.

The concept that Non-Christians could be enslaved was confirmed by further bulls like Dum Diversas 20 years later.
We grant you [Kings of Spain and Portugal] by these present documents, with our Apostolic Authority, full and free permission to invade, search out, capture, and subjugate the Saracens and pagans and any other unbelievers and enemies of Christ wherever they may be, as well as their kingdoms, duchies, counties, principalities, and other property [...] and to reduce their persons into perpetual slavery.
 
re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

"Sins" do not exist in nature, like stones or mushrooms. They are concepts.
Doctrines of atheism have no place in spiritual matters, Cyrylek.... just thought you should know. ;)
 
re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

Yes, I'm sure you are sure. ;)

I'm sure I am.

All I know is there are hundred of faiths in the world, and nearly everyone has at least some nuanced, individual interpretation of the tenets of each of those faiths, and in all those faiths and interpretations God is somehow able to mirror the exact same opinions of his adherents.
 
re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

Who cares? Homosexuality always has, and always will be, a sin.

It shows that your immutable rules of morality based on the bible do in fact change.
 
re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

I'm sure I am.

All I know is there are hundred of faiths in the world, and nearly everyone has at least some nuanced, individual interpretation of the tenets of each of those faiths, and in all those faiths and interpretations God is somehow able to mirror the exact same opinions of his adherents.
Actually there's really only way to interpret God's word, and that is His way. It's up to man to get past himself and find out God's true stance on homosexuality. Based on what's written in the Bible, I think anyone who isn't completely dishonest with himself can at least agree that God does not command homosexuals to actively be homosexuals, much less marry each other.
 
re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

I'm sure convicted felons feel oppressed too. It's all in the way you look at things.

And yet that has nothing to do with price of tea in China... you still haven't shown how gays have demanded anything of the Churches.
 
re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

It shows that your immutable rules of morality based on the bible do in fact change.
Explain.
 
re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

And yet you still haven't shown how gays have demanded anything of the Churches.
And yet, I already have, but you're too full of yourself to let it sink in. You get one more response Dezaad, before I have to put you on the shelf. I'm sure Agent J, Disneydude and the rest will happily welcome you in their ranks. ;)
 
re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

Actually there's really only way to interpret God's word, and that is His way. It's up to man to get past himself and find out God's true stance on homosexuality. Based on what's written in the Bible, I think anyone who isn't completely dishonest with himself can at least agree that God does not command homosexuals to actively be homosexuals, much less marry each other.

And "his way" just happens to be your own beliefs. Just as everybody else's "his way" mirrors their own. Point is, it seems much more likely to me that your god is taking cues from you instead of the other way around.
 
re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

And "his way" just happens to be your own beliefs.
Well, do you think His way is aligned with your beliefs?
 
re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

Well, do you think His way is aligned with your beliefs?

My beliefs on what is right and wrong are based on a Golden Rule foundation, which itself is based more on social contract theory than anything. If I can't argue that a law protects individuals and/or is largely good for civilization as a whole, then I can't defend its validity.
 
re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

I wasn't aware religion had to fight off the gay agenda. I wasn't aware they were in antithesis.

You seem to be looking for problems and creating the perception of a problem where there isn't one to begin with.

Don't do that. We were having a perfectly irrational, sensationalist, ridiculous thread until you came in here with your reasonable attitude, mister.
 
re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

And yet, I already have, but you're too full of yourself to let it sink in. You get one more response Dezaad, before I have to put you on the shelf. I'm sure Agent J, Disneydude and the rest will happily welcome you in their ranks. ;)

Do you think your religious beliefs should be used as the grounds for deciding law of the United States of America?

How about mine?
 
re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

And yet, I already have, but you're too full of yourself to let it sink in. You get one more response Dezaad, before I have to put you on the shelf. I'm sure Agent J, Disneydude and the rest will happily welcome you in their ranks. ;)

I think this is a case of projection on your part, resulting from your own arrogance. Felons feeling oppressed has nothing to do with gays marrying straight women when they are indeed oppressed. The oppression of gays has, as a direct consequence, the sad marriages between gays and straight women. The person pointing that out in your picture is clearly not making a threat, but making a compelling case. You hate it because it is compelling. You want to silence it. Go ahead, then. Put your head in the sand.
 
re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

Actually there's really only way to interpret God's word, and that is His way. It's up to man to get past himself and find out God's true stance on homosexuality. Based on what's written in the Bible, I think anyone who isn't completely dishonest with himself can at least agree that God does not command homosexuals to actively be homosexuals, much less marry each other.

You assume that all peoples have to give some kind of weight as to what other people say "God," says or the that there is a "God," at all.

I recommend people of faith, all faiths, follow their faith and do what their conscience tells them to do according to said faiths. But don't ever assume that your faith is built on any more solid foundation than the next guy's faith is. because, when people start quoting impossibilities and myths and legends and superstitions, that foundation is as shifting as the sands. It has nothing solid to base an actual belief on for those not as inclined to "believe" in such superstitious myths and legends.

And that unfounded/shakey foundation does not give any right to those building on it, to force it down the throats of other people who tend to be more skeptical using logic and the dictates of reason to form their views instead..
 
re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

My beliefs on what is right and wrong are based on a Golden Rule foundation, which itself is based more on social contract theory than anything.
Then that leaves me with one leg up on you. I happen to study the word of God, and I try to live by His precepts. So it's a safe bet to say that His way is more aligned with my beliefs than yours.

If I can't argue that a law protects individuals and/or is largely good for civilization as a whole, then I can't defend its validity.
And?
 
re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

I think this is a case of projection on your part,
I think it's more a case of you not knowing what it is you're trying to argue. You feel anger, but you don't know how to articulate that anger, much less form a compelling counter argument. Your best bet at this point is to study Christianity, first. If you don't want to do that, then let me suggest that you stay away from religious topics, altogether.
 
re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

Then that leaves me with one leg up on you. I happen to study the word of God, and I try to live by His precepts.

No, you study the word of god that most closely aligns with your own beliefs.

So it's a safe bet to say that His way is more aligned with my beliefs than yours.

See above.


So a debate can be had on whether a law is good for individual freedom and the good of civilization as a whole. No such debate can be held with regards to sin because no direct conversation can be held between god and people as a whole. There is no way to verify whether or not your beliefs are based on anything more than a cherry picked set of opinions that just happen to mirror your own. However, a case can be made as to whether a law is good for people or whether a perceived transgression is in fact even harmful to anybody.
 
re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

The Catholic Church once supported slavery and the Mormons and Southern Baptists didn't allow black priests. Social pressure force them to change their views or watch themselves become marginalized out of existence. Homosexuality is no different. Every generation is less prejudiced than the last and the number of people who will refuse to associate with a church preaching bigotry will only increase.

Exactly, and how many churches have ceased enforcing the biblical teachings of Paul on the nature of head coverings? How many Christians look at Islamic women covering their head and talk about how its a sign that Islam is an oppressive religion without realizing that the same rule is present in the Bible as well?

2 Now I praise you, brethren, that you remember me in all things and keep the traditions just as I delivered them to you. 3 But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God. 4 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonors his head. 5 But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head, for that is one and the same as if her head were shaved. 6 For if a woman is not covered, let her also be shorn. But if it is shameful for a woman to be shorn or shaved, let her be covered. 7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man. 8 For man is not from woman, but woman from man. 9 Nor was man created for the woman, but woman for the man. 10 For this reason the woman ought to have a symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels. 11 Nevertheless, neither is man independent of woman, nor woman independent of man, in the Lord. 12 For as woman came from man, even so man also comes through woman; but all things are from God.

13 Judge among yourselves. Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered? 14 Does not even nature itself teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a dishonor to him? 15 But if a woman has long hair, it is a glory to her; for her hair is given to her[a] for a covering. 16 But if anyone seems to be contentious, we have no such custom, nor do the churches of God.

1 Corinthians 11: 2-16

How many people do you think would go to that church today? Some how I doubt as many as would go to other churches that don't expect their women to do this.
 
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