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Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743:1845; 2006]

Who will still be standing


  • Total voters
    82
  • Poll closed .
re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

This from the side that likes to accuse those of us with religious beliefs of bigotry. Only goes to show what I always say—that those who most loudly purport to condemn bigotry usually turn out to be the worst bigots of all.

It's not bigotry to point out reality and the reality is that virtually all major religions, especially Christianity, are hemorrhaging members. Don't mistake fact for bigotry.

I wasn't calling that bigotry. This is what I correctly was calling out as bigotry:

It's just stupid beliefs, based on fantasy, believed by the ignorant and emotionally immature.

Aside from simply being factually wrong, it is an expression of outright bigotry, worse than any of which you have falsely accused others.

I think it is safe to say that the average person of faith is far less ignorant than yourself; and far more mature, emotionally or otherwise. It is certainly clear that by making such a statement, you expose a rather significant degree of your own ignorance and immaturity
 
re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

Mormons do not think any such thing.

sorry but the fact remains there are still Mormons that do not allow blacks to lay in priesthood and can not participate in most temple ordinances, including the endowment and celestial marriage. :shrug: they believe to still be the mark of cain and to be a curse. Its racist and they still exist, whether you agree with these Mormons or not is meaningless to their beliefs. You lose to facts again.
 
re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

Nothing ever works for people like you, but we'll start here, anyways:

Openly gay Mormon member wants church to evolve | azfamily.com Phoenix

You are calling this a demand? He is trying to persuade, yes. But that is hardly a demand. Equality under the law is demanded, and rightly so. Acceptance in the Churches is requested. There is a big difference. Many Churches have found their compassionate spirit. Others have not yet. Those that have, have done so of their own wisdom, not because it was demanded of them.

As I thought, you have zero. If you led off with your best, then don't bother further. But, I will tell you this: you must show a preponderance of Churches under pressure from gay people making demands.
 
re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

The silliness here is that some people actually think the religious go through changes out of faith. Churches go through changes out of social pressure each and every single time. Mormons started letting blacks get into the priesthood because they were about to set up shop in Latin America. Catholics gave up on slavery after blacks in Haiti burnt down a few very rich estates owned by rich French Catholics. Protestants ran away from Africa when they realized South Americans were more docile. The Catholic Church gave up on forcefully imposing pictures of white saints when they realized that letting people adopt local saints could achieve the same goals.

Now with gays becoming part of the social mainstream, religion has to change. 30 years ago nobody, absolutely nobody, would have imagined a gay parade. Homosexuality is no longer a taboo subject. It's debated, talked about, shown as part of pornography, experimented with, romanticized, idolized. It's everywhere. They, the religious, wouldn't have imagined gay spa's, restaurants, villages, etc. Today, most major cities have an area where gays feel welcomed and can party to their hearts desires. To their credit, some gays are actually extremely religious. Having spent nearly 9 months working in a Latin American country, I can tell you first hand that there are gays who will show up to church like clockwork on Sunday after a long night at the bar on Friday/Saturday. Not to repent for their "sins" but to simply bask in a community that has some values they approve of.

All that aside, if religion wants a piece of that gay $$$ train. It's going to have to start letting them in. Muslims won't go down as easily (pun intended) - but then again - the image is a lot more complex. Lebanon is liberalizing slowly. Iran is a gay hellhole. Unless you're a transexual. Then, they're pretty nice to you. Turkey, Bahrain and Indonesia allow some forms of homosexuality. Saudi Arabia is still dealing with such nuances like women having rights, so not much can be expected from them. However, progress is being made in these countries as well.

Judaism isn't into recruiting so who honestly gives two ****s how they feel. Then again, Israel is the most progressive as far as gay marriage goes. They have common law marriage for gays. Which is, as good as you're going to get right now in the Middle East. Other countries in the Mediterranean have their issues. Greece allows for same sex partnerships, but doesn't grant them any of the protections straights get. Italy for its part allowed gays to serve and has them protected under their constitution. So that's a good side.

Africa still sucks when it comes to gay rights. All of it sucks when it comes to gay rights.

In conclusion: Civilization is moving forward. 60 years from now, we will no longer hear about gays being persecuted in "civilized" countries where the majority of people have electricity and computers. As more information becomes available to every little nook and cranny in the world, people are now finally being allowed to make decisions in regards to how they feel about homosexuality. They no longer have to sit in a church or go to a local religious leader to ask questions. They can simply say "you know what? I'll learn about it myself". And we're starting to see the results of that. Some Muslim countries now have leaders advocating for change. Gays have constitutions to protect them as minorities. Even socially conservative countries like Mexico have begun to see gays as a group that deserves just as much protection as all others.

It's an exciting time to be a supporter of gay rights whether you're gay or straight. We are witnessing social changes that will only occur in our generation. The next one will have to find something else to be worry about.
 
re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

I've noticed a lot of churches have been caving in to the demands of gay activists, so my question here is, which of the remaining 4 will still be standing after the dust settles?

You do realize that the "Gay Agenda" is completely made up and nothing more than extreme religious right propaganda, don't you? It was created by the Family Research Council, notorious for presenting false information about homosexuals.

So, with the premise of your thread shown to be debunked, I see no purpose for your thread at all.
 
re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

sorry but the fact remains there are still Mormons that do not allow blacks to lay in priesthood and can not participate in most temple ordinances, including the endowment and celestial marriage. :shrug: they believe to still be the mark of cain and to be a curse. Its racist and they still exist, whether you agree with these Mormons or not is meaningless to their beliefs. You lose to facts again.

That is absolutely false.
 
re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

I think the dust will never settle..its never gonna cool off..this thing will come over and over...without a solution..
 
re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

I think the dust will never settle..its never gonna cool off..this thing will come over and over...without a solution..

Just like Jim Crowe, Women's rights and Who Framed Roger Rabbit. :roll:
 
re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

I think the dust will never settle..its never gonna cool off..this thing will come over and over...without a solution..

One thing I always used for hope was former civil rights conflicts involving religion, no matter what, most of the churches, if not all, accepted the change with open arms. That's what I believe will happen.
 
re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

I am a Christian and dont know wether homosexualtiy is a sin or not. But God does, I think on earth the Church should be as inclusive as possible. If it is a sin that is not forgiven God will handle it.
 
re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

Skin color isn't a sin. Homosexuality is. The gay agenda has zero legs on this one.

Slavery wasn't a sin and now it is. wonder how that happened?
 
re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

Incredibly disgusting, I know. I mean, it is alright if breeders want to be that way in the privacy of their homes, but to shove their lifestyle down our throats like they do. It's just sick, and more than I can handle, really.

like when they hold hands as they're walking?
 
re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

:shrug: If I had to make a bet, it would be on the Methodists' folding first. I say that as a Methodist, mind you.
 
re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

Finished in your circles, yes. But then, it's always been that way hasn't it? And of course, your side has SO much to look forward to outside of religion, doesn't it?

Yes. We have faith in people, good acts done for the sake of good acts, not for some hoped-for reward in the future, we don't have a vengeful being staring at every move we make ready to mark it as a sin, we have joy and grace and love.

Beats believing in a fairy tale.
 
re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

Religion is failing miserably across the board, it will fall into obscurity within a generation and gay marriage will have nothing to do with it. It's just stupid beliefs, based on fantasy, believed by the ignorant and emotionally immature.

i wish you were right, but as long as there are hucksters in this world, and ignorant and scared people to target, religion will be with us ...
 
re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

"Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda?"

The Cult of State.

No other religion can convert prejudices of its high priests into laws of the land, in the modern times. If your focus is on "standing ground against the gay agenda", go Communist or Nazi - they have the "best" record, when it comes to gays.
 
re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

I think the most likely to alter its position (other than Methodist) is the LDS Church. People who think it is made up of unbending fundamentalists do not have a solid appreciation for how malleable and savvy the Church is. The ease at which they accepted the Boy Scouts of American sexual orientation change, the way in which they have steadily de-emphasized the fight against gay marriage, all serve as evidence that a chance in outlook is already underway.
 
re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

"Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda?"

The Cult of State.

No other religion can convert prejudices of its high priests into laws of the land, in the modern times. If your focus is on "standing ground against the gay agenda", go Communist or Nazi - they have the "best" record, when it comes to gays.
I believe we can stand our ground without murdering homosexuals.
 
re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda?


Stand WHAT ground? In my opinion, they have no ground to stand on, to begin with.

If they want to stand on the church ground, have at it. Just keep that pulpit morality away from me. I don't need a church to tell me the difference between right and wrong.

Certainly no MORAL highground. I think, generally speaking, religious oppression is immoral. American does not want or need a christian Taliban.
 
re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

I guess that made the Mormons and Southern Baptists leftists then.
I said primarily on the Left, and I see little to zero evidence of racism in those religions today. It's much more on the Left.

That doesn't change the fact that Polygamy is explicitly condoned in the bible and modern prohibition against it is based on social attitudes not scripture.
It's based mostly on man's inability to deal with this particular edict from the divine.
 
re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

The Catholic Church once supported slavery

Nearly 60 years before the Europeans were to find the New World, we already had the papal condemnation of slavery as soon as this crime was discovered in one of the first of the Portuguese geographical discoveries

Fr. Joel S. Panzer

A quote from the papal bull in question (written in 1435): These people are to be totally and perpetually free and are to be let go without the exaction or reception of any money.
 
re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

You are calling this a demand?
Take a look at the sign this politically charged Christian is pumping into the air. Read the words then tell me that's nothing less than a demand. Actually it's more like a threat, which is worse. Thank you for helping me make that clarification, Dezaad. ;)
 
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re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

I believe we can stand our ground without murdering homosexuals.

What "ground" is that exactly? I don't understand - honestly - what are you fighting for?

I am a heterosexual. I was a Catholic in my youth. If I were homosexual, I would have to stay celibate - or leave the Church. Simple enough, if not perfectly pleasant for everyone.

But we are not talking about churches or any other voluntary organizations. We are talking about the role of government. Our government has the obligation to treat American citizens equally, unless and until they do harm to others.

What possible justification can there be, within our declared system of shared values, for a homosexual being denied the "bride visa" for his foreign partner, for example?

I am not suggesting that everyone who is against gay marriage is ready to endorse the Soviet/Nazi "ultimate solutions". 99 % are not ready or ever will be ready, thank god. (That remaining 1% is "full of passionate intensity" though...Potent stuff - watch out). But in the end, it is all very simple: You have your ideas of what is right, good, proper, etc. I have mine. You have every right to try and convince me, seduce me, bribe me, etc into changing my mind. You don't have the right to force me, to coerce me, to affirm your ideas of what's "correct" or "proper" by unleashing the hellhounds of the State on me.

When a gay or a lesbian applies for the bride visa, to bring his or her loved one to the Fruited Plain - and gets a guard-dog growl in response - while you and I would get smiles and rubber stamps, no problem - you seriously don't think - as an American citizen, whatever is your religion - that something is wrong with the picture?
 
re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

Slavery wasn't a sin and now it is. wonder how that happened?
Who cares? Homosexuality always has, and always will be, a sin.
 
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