View Poll Results: Who will still be standing

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  • Roman Catholic Church

    15 15.79%
  • Southern Baptist Convention

    13 13.68%
  • United Methodist Church

    1 1.05%
  • Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

    8 8.42%
  • None will be standing

    24 25.26%
  • One or more will still be standing

    7 7.37%
  • All four will be standing

    8 8.42%
  • The dust will never settle

    19 20.00%
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Thread: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743:1845; 2006]

  1. #1781
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    Re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Well no, the problem with Christianity is Christianity. Luckily, it looks like only about 30% of American self-identified Christians actually buy into the religious bullpucky, the rest think that religion is all about living a good life and being nice to each other It's just that there are a certain small percentage of those 30% of religious Americans who take it really, really, really seriously and those people are so delusional, talking to them at all is really pointless. They tend to live in a complete fantasy world, as appears to be the case here.

    It's just easier to let them rant on their own, they have no capacity for changing their minds and no interest in reality.
    I am really starting to like you Cephus. I agree for the most part. But I have to say the problem with christianity is Christians.

  2. #1782
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    Re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

    Quote Originally Posted by CLAX1911 View Post
    I am really starting to like you Cephus. I agree for the most part. But I have to say the problem with christianity is Christians.
    Without Christians, there is no Christianity, just like without people who believe in Zeus, there is no religion based on that mythology. We're essentially saying the same thing.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  3. #1783
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    Re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Without Christians, there is no Christianity, just like without people who believe in Zeus, there is no religion based on that mythology. We're essentially saying the same thing.
    Perhaps we are.

  4. #1784
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    Re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

    Quote Originally Posted by davidtaylorjr View Post
    Of course all of sinned, you seem to think we only address one sin. That's not the case. The problem is people are blatantly flaunting that sin and not turning from it. We also discuss other sins, they just don't get the publicity from the MSM.

    It means exactly what it says, to counter where you are going with that, what do you think Romans 6 means?
    I will ponder on it. Meanwhile, I suppose I could at least offer my opinion of it. But, to be honest, I haven't spent much time on that particular scripture, as of late, and my quick response may be out of context with the overall message. (I have learned not to cherry pick scripture to validate my views as that approach has backfired on many who frequent our little forum, myself included.)

    What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase?

    Should we pour gasoline on a fire? I think the sentence is clear. To the christian, "sin" must be resisted. Sin is defined and interpreted for the christian either by their church, the Holy Bible or the Holy Spirit. Or a combination of all three. The state of grace is always worked towards to the practicing christian. (I highly doubt we will meet any of them here at Debate Politics, however. ) To the non-christian, it is an understandable behavior but it can become offensive when one man's religion or beliefs treads upon their personal beliefs. The assumption that the believer's point of view is always right, because their God said so, is an infringement upon the freedom of others who choose to freely think. When one party of any debatable issue thinks their source of knowledge and viewpoints are beyond reproach due to their deity being their source of validity, it becomes a pointless conversation going forth. All to often, at that point in time, the non-religious just drops their jaw and shakes their head. But, it's been going on since Adam and Eve took dietary suggestions from a talking snake so I digress.

    2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?

    I suppose that could be interpreted in several ways. Hard to tell without going back through to read what's in front of it. But, just guessing, it's relative to spiritual enlightenment and the quest of the christian to be godly and avoid sin. OR, could it be possible that it is subliminally prophetic? With STD's the way they are, could it be people were dying from promiscuity. That's a stretch. Regardless, we got a group of people telling the rest of the world what is to be considered sin and what is not. I imagine that is just as difficult today as it was a thousand years ago. But whatever. For the non-believer to even be concerned what it means there, they would have to acknowledge that it is even worthy of discussion to begin with. Again, they are at the point where they are thinking, "I'm debating someone who believes in talking snakes, water turning to wine, virgin births, dead people coming back to life and 'dim bones gonna rise again! And he's telling me how I can or cannot live MY life!" The phrase, "Don't tread on me," comes to mind.


    3 Or donít you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

    Sorry dude. We're in the dungeons and dragons world with all the mumbo jumbo there. I can't even offer an opinion. I mean, I know what it supposed to mean, kinda, but it is so out there in the twilight zone I shudder to give it enough validity to even discuss. In short, I don't care what that means because it looks like, sounds like gobble-dy-gook. Therefore, to me, it's gobble-de-gook.

    But whatever. I'm getting off point here. What I am trying to say is this:

    To the believer. God bless you. Go forth. Do good. Believe what is in your heart. What you believe to be a "sin," you should put on your armour and do your best to avoid it. I hope the believer's find this graceful enlightenment or whatever Holy Spirit they are searching for or already claiming. But in the meantime, don't take yourself to seriously because I assure you, others, all to often, do not. Further, at the end of the day, you have no moral highground or trump card diety unless you are dealing with others who recognize the same godly Ace of Spades.

    To the non-believer: Lighten the **** up. In this day and age it is refreshing to see someone who stands firm on their beliefs especially when their mission statement, above any and all impressions they may leave, is love. I know, I know. I hear you. But the bad side of them does not necessarily outweigh the good. Meet their intolerance with tolerance and patience. Whatever they have to say is only relevant to those who are like-minded and it can only become relevant if you let it.

    To everyone: There is a new deity or belief system about every 2000 years or so. If I am not mistaken, the current age of Christianity, as we know it, is, shall we say, running on bald tires. We can expect a blow out soon enough and then we can get on with next, latest, greatest religion and then we can let THOSE guys tell everyone how to live.

    This too shall pass.

    And the beat goes on....

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  5. #1785
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    Re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Salvation is from seeking truth.

    "Who may ascend the mountain of the Lord?
    Who may stand in his holy place?
    4 The one who has clean hands and a pure heart,
    who does not trust in an idol
    or swear by a false god."

    Psalm 24
    When people lay faith in the impossible and defy every sense of logic and every dictate of reason, in an act of faith, the politest thing we could say to them is that truth is subjective. For perception is reality. You would have no better luck convincing a true man of faith that he is ridiculously wrong than you would convincing a paranoid schizophrenic that there is no tiger in the corner wanting to maul him to pieces.

    Perhaps that is why it has always been considered impolite to discuss matters of religion at the dinner table. Eventually, there WILL be a pissing match about who's God gave them the biggest cock.

    All this division. All this animosity. All in the name of God.

    I can just feeeeeeel the love. Halalujah.

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  6. #1786
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    Re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Society decides what the speed limits are, what age people can drive, what age people can drink, society decides *EVERYTHING*. Society determines laws and rules and morals. You'd have to demonstrate that you can get to "truth" any other way, or that a singular "truth" actually exists. Just because you want it to be so doesn't mean it actually is.
    Majority opinion doesn't make something the truth. It just makes it the majority opinion. There is no rational reason for believing that majority opinion is truth. None.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  7. #1787
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    Re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    weird i didnt see the part where he said" truth" is decided by majority opinion? I believe he was talking about marriage
    can you link or bold where he said that please or show me where marriage is FACTUALLY defined and why/how it cant be any other way besides the way you say
    What is a factual definition? A definition is a definition. Marriage for millenia has been defined as the union between a man and a woman. If you're talking about the union of a man and a man, then you're talking about something else.

    Arguing over a term is a strawman. What's really being pushed for is acceptance. Changing the definition of institutions isn't going to cause acceptance.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  8. #1788
    I'm kind of a big deal

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    Re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    1.)What is a factual definition? A definition is a definition.
    2.) Marriage for millenia has been defined as the union between a man and a woman.
    3.) If you're talking about the union of a man and a man, then you're talking about something else.
    4.) Arguing over a term is a strawman. What's really being pushed for is acceptance.
    5.) Changing the definition of institutions isn't going to cause acceptance.
    1.) this is called stalling and filler
    2.) factually wrong since gay marriage existed BC
    3.) you are free to have this OPINION
    4.) thats good you feel that way maybe your stop failing at it when you do then
    5.) nope, just more of your opinoin
    6.) institution? lol good thing i dont care about peoples acceptance

    people dont accept interracial marriage, or minoties as equal or woman having jobs of power/intelligence, nobody cares what bigots think
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  9. #1789
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    Re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

    Mt 16:18 And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

  10. #1790
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    Re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    1.) this is called stalling and filler
    2.) factually wrong since gay marriage existed BC
    3.) you are free to have this OPINION
    4.) thats good you feel that way maybe your stop failing at it when you do then
    5.) nope, just more of your opinoin
    6.) institution? lol good thing i dont care about peoples acceptance

    people dont accept interracial marriage, or minoties as equal or woman having jobs of power/intelligence, nobody cares what bigots think
    And there ends the argument, apparently. Just call me a bigot, except that I'm not calling for substandard schools, services, etc. for gays. But whatever, if that's what you want to call me go ahead.

    And yes, the Church is consistent on this. Impotent couples cannot get married in the Church. So it's not something specific to gays.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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