View Poll Results: Who will still be standing

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  • Roman Catholic Church

    15 15.79%
  • Southern Baptist Convention

    13 13.68%
  • United Methodist Church

    1 1.05%
  • Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

    8 8.42%
  • None will be standing

    24 25.26%
  • One or more will still be standing

    7 7.37%
  • All four will be standing

    8 8.42%
  • The dust will never settle

    19 20.00%
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Thread: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743:1845; 2006]

  1. #121
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    re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dooble View Post
    Actually there's really only way to interpret God's word, and that is His way. It's up to man to get past himself and find out God's true stance on homosexuality. Based on what's written in the Bible, I think anyone who isn't completely dishonest with himself can at least agree that God does not command homosexuals to actively be homosexuals, much less marry each other.
    You assume that all peoples have to give some kind of weight as to what other people say "God," says or the that there is a "God," at all.

    I recommend people of faith, all faiths, follow their faith and do what their conscience tells them to do according to said faiths. But don't ever assume that your faith is built on any more solid foundation than the next guy's faith is. because, when people start quoting impossibilities and myths and legends and superstitions, that foundation is as shifting as the sands. It has nothing solid to base an actual belief on for those not as inclined to "believe" in such superstitious myths and legends.

    And that unfounded/shakey foundation does not give any right to those building on it, to force it down the throats of other people who tend to be more skeptical using logic and the dictates of reason to form their views instead..

    It's GREAT to be me. --- "45% liberal/55% conservative"
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  2. #122
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    re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    My beliefs on what is right and wrong are based on a Golden Rule foundation, which itself is based more on social contract theory than anything.
    Then that leaves me with one leg up on you. I happen to study the word of God, and I try to live by His precepts. So it's a safe bet to say that His way is more aligned with my beliefs than yours.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    If I can't argue that a law protects individuals and/or is largely good for civilization as a whole, then I can't defend its validity.
    And?

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    re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezaad View Post
    I think this is a case of projection on your part,
    I think it's more a case of you not knowing what it is you're trying to argue. You feel anger, but you don't know how to articulate that anger, much less form a compelling counter argument. Your best bet at this point is to study Christianity, first. If you don't want to do that, then let me suggest that you stay away from religious topics, altogether.

  4. #124
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    re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dooble View Post
    Then that leaves me with one leg up on you. I happen to study the word of God, and I try to live by His precepts.
    No, you study the word of god that most closely aligns with your own beliefs.

    So it's a safe bet to say that His way is more aligned with my beliefs than yours.
    See above.

    And?
    So a debate can be had on whether a law is good for individual freedom and the good of civilization as a whole. No such debate can be held with regards to sin because no direct conversation can be held between god and people as a whole. There is no way to verify whether or not your beliefs are based on anything more than a cherry picked set of opinions that just happen to mirror your own. However, a case can be made as to whether a law is good for people or whether a perceived transgression is in fact even harmful to anybody.

  5. #125
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    re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    The Catholic Church once supported slavery and the Mormons and Southern Baptists didn't allow black priests. Social pressure force them to change their views or watch themselves become marginalized out of existence. Homosexuality is no different. Every generation is less prejudiced than the last and the number of people who will refuse to associate with a church preaching bigotry will only increase.
    Exactly, and how many churches have ceased enforcing the biblical teachings of Paul on the nature of head coverings? How many Christians look at Islamic women covering their head and talk about how its a sign that Islam is an oppressive religion without realizing that the same rule is present in the Bible as well?

    2 Now I praise you, brethren, that you remember me in all things and keep the traditions just as I delivered them to you. 3 But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God. 4 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonors his head. 5 But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head, for that is one and the same as if her head were shaved. 6 For if a woman is not covered, let her also be shorn. But if it is shameful for a woman to be shorn or shaved, let her be covered. 7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man. 8 For man is not from woman, but woman from man. 9 Nor was man created for the woman, but woman for the man. 10 For this reason the woman ought to have a symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels. 11 Nevertheless, neither is man independent of woman, nor woman independent of man, in the Lord. 12 For as woman came from man, even so man also comes through woman; but all things are from God.

    13 Judge among yourselves. Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered? 14 Does not even nature itself teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a dishonor to him? 15 But if a woman has long hair, it is a glory to her; for her hair is given to her[a] for a covering. 16 But if anyone seems to be contentious, we have no such custom, nor do the churches of God.
    1 Corinthians 11: 2-16

    How many people do you think would go to that church today? Some how I doubt as many as would go to other churches that don't expect their women to do this.

  6. #126
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    re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dooble View Post
    Explain.
    Not so long ago people had no problems with slavery and it was accepted in the bible as totally normal. Not very long ago people would claim Slavery always was and always will be moral. You appear to be basing your claim on religion, the bible specifically. Now if the bible can say something like slavery is morally right but that is universally accepted as not being true today why do you think you can say the bible says homosexuality is wrong and think that this will be true yesterday, today and tomorrow when clearly the morals of society have not stagnated with the bible interpretations of right/wrong.
    A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
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  7. #127
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    re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    You should always read the full text.
    Obviously you missed this part: ...that they restore to their earlier liberty all and each person of either sex who were once residents of said Canary Islands, and made captives since the time of their capture, and who have been made subject to slavery.

    ...no exceptions.

    The concept that Non-Christians could be enslaved was confirmed by further bulls like Dum Diversas 20 years later.
    You are free to interpret the original Latin any way you choose. There is some doubt as to what exactly Pope Nicholas meant by "perpetual servitude". Here is a blog that discusses a translation of the bull. A quote from the blog: Much has been made of this phrase "perpetual servitude", though since the Bull comes in the late medieval period and not in the early modern period, I am not sure the phrase "perpetual servitude" should be interpreted in the same light it would be if the Bull was written in, say, 1650. I think we need to see it in a more "feudal" sense than a colonial one. At any rate, it needs more study.
    The morality of abortion is not a religious belief, any more than the morality of slavery, apartheid, rape, larceny, murder or arson is a religious belief. These are norms of the natural law of mankind and can be legislated even in a completely religionless society.

  8. #128
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    re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    No, you study the word of god that most closely aligns with your own beliefs.
    Which word of God do you study?

    You, see above.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    So a debate can be had on whether a law is good for individual freedom and the good of civilization as a whole. No such debate can be held with regards to sin because no direct conversation can be held between god and people as a whole. There is no way to verify whether or not your beliefs are based on anything more than a cherry picked set of opinions that just happen to mirror your own. However, a case can be made as to whether a law is good for people or whether a perceived transgression is in fact even harmful to anybody.
    "Sin" is equivalent to any behavior that you and I can agree is wrong, and more importantly, it is equivalent to any behavior that is wrong in the sight of God.

  9. #129
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    re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    I'm more interested in the many religions that support homosexuals and equal rights. Many denominations of Christianity, including the Episcopal and Lutheran churches, some sects of Catholicism, the United Church of Canada, Quakers, some Mennonites, and then there's Unitarians, Reform Jews, and many Buddhists, and then there's Wiccans and American Indian faiths... all of which express support for gay rights and gay marriage.

    There is literally not a single faith in the whole world without homosexual members, nor one without heterosexuals who support them.
    The Christian Faith is without homosexual members, as homosexuals, unless they repent and turn from it, cannot be Christian. Any professing to be are false Christians.
    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.

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    re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

    Quote Originally Posted by Quag View Post
    Not so long ago people had no problems with slavery and it was accepted in the bible as totally normal. Not very long ago people would claim Slavery always was and always will be moral. You appear to be basing your claim on religion, the bible specifically. Now if the bible can say something like slavery is morally right but that is universally accepted as not being true today why do you think you can say the bible says homosexuality is wrong and think that this will be true yesterday, today and tomorrow when clearly the morals of society have not stagnated with the bible interpretations of right/wrong.
    But where is the change on homosexuality? Where in the Bible does it EVER state that God commands homosexuals to be homosexual?

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