View Poll Results: Is the age of a dead burglar,assailant,armed robber, attempted rapist/murder relavent

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Thread: Is the age of a dead burglar,assailant,armed robber, attempted rapist/murder relavent

  1. #41
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    Re: Is the age of a dead burglar,assailant,armed robber, attempted rapist/murder rela

    Quote Originally Posted by FilmFestGuy View Post
    I personally refer to anyone under 30 as a kid at this point. When a teen dies in an accident people say, "He was just a kid." It's actually quite common.

    And I don't ****ing care if it was Snoop Dogg (or Lion or whatever he calls himself these days): Zimmerman does what was asked him by the dispatcher and what is policy of Neighborhood Watch - and everyone's alive.

    Zimmerman's initial bad judgment led to everything. Without that, we hear nothing about these two. Martin's alive and Zimmerman can remain paranoid in trying to take out "punks."

    The make-up or content of Martin's character has dick-all to do with it, other than to let certain people feel glad that he's dead.
    Both people's actions led to the events. Did you know that 4 black children (REAL children) were gunned down in Chicago during the 20-day duration of the trial? Where's the outrage for that? What makes THIS crime any worse?

    http://homicides.suntimes.com/
    Last edited by ChrisL; 07-18-13 at 06:51 PM.

  2. #42
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    Re: Is the age of a dead burglar,assailant,armed robber, attempted rapist/murder rela

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Okay, the same can be said of Trayvon's decisions that night too, to confront the follower, to not call 9-1-1 and call his friend instead, probably other things that I don't remember or don't know about. I certainly wasn't as interested and didn't follow this case as much as others have and it's not an obsession of mine.

    However, according to the topic of discussion, if a person who is 17 years old starts beating the hell out of you and is getting the better of you, slamming your head on the concrete and smothering you, it is a natural instinct to use whatever to defend yourself.
    Martin's decisions matter less, because he didn't place himself in the circumstance. Zimmerman did. I'm not saying Martin didn't have a part. He did. But he didn't instigate the events. Zimmerman did.

    I'm really afraid of the precedent this sets.

    Imagine a bully in school following a kid down the hall, but the scrawny kid turns out to be stronger than the bully thought. Now, the bully can just claim self-defense and shoot. That he instigated things doesn't matter any more.

    Hell, as long as he doesn't say so, a potential rapist can initiate an attack and if the woman fights back and is a little stronger than he thought, he can shoot her and claim self-defense as long as there is no one to verify that he intended to rape her.

    As it is now, we're going to have another one of these trials with a guy who started an argument over the "hip-hop being too loud" and shot a kid who was sitting in a car. And he's claiming self-defense.

    It's a terrible precedent that allows aggressors to claim victimhood in the act of taking out their prey.

  3. #43
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    Re: Is the age of a dead burglar,assailant,armed robber, attempted rapist/murder rela

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    I noticed that some of the Treyvon Martin supporters keep bringing up the fact he was a kid and I know some people think it does matter that an assailant was a minor.So I thought I would ask the following question- Is the age of a dead burglar,assailant,bank robber, attempted rapist/murder relevant? For example if a burglar is killed inside someone's home should the homeowner be in legal trouble if that burglar is a minor? If a bank robber is killed while trying to rob a bank and that bank robber is a minor should that concerned citizen or security guard be in legal trouble?
    if he was trying to rob zimmerman

    l wonder it
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  4. #44
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    Re: Is the age of a dead burglar,assailant,armed robber, attempted rapist/murder rela

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Well, if you're familiar with my posts on the subject of children, I think they should be considered and treated as adults when they are 18. Some will say that's arbitrary, but it's really a generally acceptable age of adulthood IMO. And even that might be kind of young when considering current scientific knowledge about the differences in the brains of teens and adults.
    Hmm - do you remember years ago when we talked about that kid who killed his father's girlfriend and he was sentenced to an adult prison - though, physically, they weren't able to care for him (like - they didn't have his size clothes, etc)? . . . I think, in that debate, we tossed around the growing necessity of needing a high-security teen-prison. (It might not have been you - I can't even remember what year that was. 2009?)

    Because a lot of juveniles haven't done anything as extreme as cause bodily harm or death - a 13 year old stealing is different than a 17 year old killing someone.

    So - the issue, it seems, is that we still haven't addressed that fact that (apparently) more and more youth are committing the higher-level crimes - and the solution is either A) put them with the juvenile delinquents whom they will be a harm to or B) put them with adults who will be a harm to them.

    I actually care - maybe it should be decided individually based on the student and their physical aptitude.

    I believe juveniles who've committed minor crimes still have a future - and they shouldn't be burdened and held back by bunking with a murderer.

    (Of course - I know that's not what the OP was about)
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    Re: Is the age of a dead burglar,assailant,armed robber, attempted rapist/murder rela

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Hmm - do you remember years ago when we talked about that kid who killed his father's girlfriend and he was sentenced to an adult prison - though, physically, they weren't able to care for him (like - they didn't have his size clothes, etc)? . . . I think, in that debate, we tossed around the growing necessity of needing a high-security teen-prison. (It might not have been you - I can't even remember what year that was. 2009?)

    Because a lot of juveniles haven't done anything as extreme as cause bodily harm or death - a 13 year old stealing is different than a 17 year old killing someone.

    So - the issue, it seems, is that we still haven't addressed that fact that (apparently) more and more youth are committing the higher-level crimes - and the solution is either A) put them with the juvenile delinquents whom they will be a harm to or B) put them with adults who will be a harm to them.

    I actually care - maybe it should be decided individually based on the student and their physical aptitude.

    I believe juveniles who've committed minor crimes still have a future - and they shouldn't be burdened and held back by bunking with a murderer.

    (Of course - I know that's not what the OP was about)
    CDC - Violent Crime Arrest Rates Among Persons Ages 10-24 - Youth Violence - Violence Prevention - Injury

    If you follow the link, you'll see that the rate of violent crimes committed by men age 10 - 24 has lessened by more than half since 1995.

    The rate by women 10 - 24 remains basically unchanged, but was pretty low to begin with.

    Just wanted to make sure you were aware that "more and more youth are committing higher-level crimes" isn't actually true. They're committing a lot fewer.

  6. #46
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    Re: Is the age of a dead burglar,assailant,armed robber, attempted rapist/murder rela

    Quote Originally Posted by FilmFestGuy View Post
    One thing you all overlook is that Martin was a minor. There are restrictions about what CAN be released about a minor without the family's consent. Of course, the family has an interest in painting their son out to be a saint - and likely would've done so even if it was just talking to strangers about their kid before the incident. It's what most parents do, even when they have a kid with some issues.

    And the right wing media played their own distortion games as well, so that a certain bunch of people can feel justified in being glad that Martin is dead.

    I'm not saying you necessarily, but I guarantee you there are a LOT of people out there who don't look at this as tragic, but are thankful that Zimmerman "got one." Thus, the need to paint him out as the human face of evil for smoking pot and getting suspended.
    OJ trial wasn't that long ago....so perhaps some people might be feeling vindicated for that. I don't know if the family of TM would have total control or even consent in the evidence and photographs on TMs cell phone and facebook that were discovered by the prosecutor and/or the defense. Anyway...

    Zimmerman's defense team made a deal with the prosecution not use evidence that attacked the character of either Trayvon or Zimmerman. If the evidence doesn't explain or show what happened in the moments leading up to TM getting killed then it's irrelevant to the case. So the defense didn't need it and the prosecutor didn't want the public seeing it and so a deal was reached. But that doesn't mean we can't still talk about it.
    Last edited by Moot; 07-18-13 at 07:20 PM.

  7. #47
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    Re: Is the age of a dead burglar,assailant,armed robber, attempted rapist/murder rela

    Quote Originally Posted by FilmFestGuy View Post
    CDC - Violent Crime Arrest Rates Among Persons Ages 10-24 - Youth Violence - Violence Prevention - Injury

    If you follow the link, you'll see that the rate of violent crimes committed by men age 10 - 24 has lessened by more than half since 1995.

    The rate by women 10 - 24 remains basically unchanged, but was pretty low to begin with.

    Just wanted to make sure you were aware that "more and more youth are committing higher-level crimes" isn't actually true. They're committing a lot fewer.
    Thanks - I just must be paying more attention to it. Odds are that's psychological for me - my children are getting older so I'm focusing more on issues that might affect their age bracket.
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  8. #48
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    Re: Is the age of a dead burglar,assailant,armed robber, attempted rapist/murder rela

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    I noticed that some of the Treyvon Martin supporters keep bringing up the fact he was a kid and I know some people think it does matter that an assailant was a minor.So I thought I would ask the following question- Is the age of a dead burglar,assailant,bank robber, attempted rapist/murder relevant? For example if a burglar is killed inside someone's home should the homeowner be in legal trouble if that burglar is a minor? If a bank robber is killed while trying to rob a bank and that bank robber is a minor should that concerned citizen or security guard be in legal trouble?
    .


    You appear to imply Trayvons' guilt by the way you phrase the question. I don't see the similarities here, primarily because we KNOW that someone is a threat if they are caught in the act of robbing our home or a bank.

  9. #49
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    Re: Is the age of a dead burglar,assailant,armed robber, attempted rapist/murder rela

    Quote Originally Posted by FilmFestGuy View Post
    Martin's decisions matter less, because he didn't place himself in the circumstance. Zimmerman did. I'm not saying Martin didn't have a part. He did. But he didn't instigate the events. Zimmerman did.

    I'm really afraid of the precedent this sets.

    Imagine a bully in school following a kid down the hall, but the scrawny kid turns out to be stronger than the bully thought. Now, the bully can just claim self-defense and shoot. That he instigated things doesn't matter any more.

    Hell, as long as he doesn't say so, a potential rapist can initiate an attack and if the woman fights back and is a little stronger than he thought, he can shoot her and claim self-defense as long as there is no one to verify that he intended to rape her.

    As it is now, we're going to have another one of these trials with a guy who started an argument over the "hip-hop being too loud" and shot a kid who was sitting in a car. And he's claiming self-defense.

    It's a terrible precedent that allows aggressors to claim victimhood in the act of taking out their prey.
    I don't think the law allows someone to be in the middle of commiting a crime and then claim self defense if they kill someone....no uh uh....I'm pretty sure it doesn't. Not even the SYG law is that stupid.

  10. #50
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    Re: Is the age of a dead burglar,assailant,armed robber, attempted rapist/murder rela

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    It was relevant in this case because the media manipulated the public into believing Trayvon was just a "little boy" skipping home with his little bag of candy as opposed to a full grown young man sauntering home after smoking a big spleef.
    Where do you get the information that he was "sauntering" and the he had smoked a big spleef? Also, what does it say about some who smokes. Is anyone who smokes pot then also a thief?

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