View Poll Results: Is the age of a dead burglar,assailant,armed robber, attempted rapist/murder relavent

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  • yes

    11 18.64%
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    36 61.02%
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    12 20.34%
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Thread: Is the age of a dead burglar,assailant,armed robber, attempted rapist/murder relavent

  1. #191
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    Re: Is the age of a dead burglar,assailant,armed robber, attempted rapist/murder rela

    Quote Originally Posted by windowdressing View Post
    there's a reason we don't let them drive, or serve in the military, or drink liquor when they're 12 ....
    Right, because they need restrictions. But that has zero to do with punishment for crimes.
    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.

    Ronald Reagan

  2. #192
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    Re: Is the age of a dead burglar,assailant,armed robber, attempted rapist/murder rela

    Quote Originally Posted by davidtaylorjr View Post
    Right, because they need restrictions. But that has zero to do with punishment for crimes.
    you seem to be missing the point ... When you're 12 you lack maturity, and that needs to be taken it account ... but your position is a very familiar one, that is, "Look at what a badass I am! I'm even in favor of sending a 12 year old to prison for life."

    BTW, are you in favor of the death penalty? If you are, would you favor putting the 12-year-old to death?

  3. #193
    Sage davidtaylorjr's Avatar
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    Re: Is the age of a dead burglar,assailant,armed robber, attempted rapist/murder rela

    Quote Originally Posted by windowdressing View Post
    you seem to be missing the point ... When you're 12 you lack maturity, and that needs to be taken it account ... but your position is a very familiar one, that is, "Look at what a badass I am! I'm even in favor of sending a 12 year old to prison for life."

    BTW, are you in favor of the death penalty? If you are, would you favor putting the 12-year-old to death?
    Yes I would. If the 12 year old intentionally killed someone, absolutely.
    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.

    Ronald Reagan

  4. #194
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    Re: Is the age of a dead burglar,assailant,armed robber, attempted rapist/murder rela

    Quote Originally Posted by davidtaylorjr View Post
    Yes I would. If the 12 year old intentionally killed someone, absolutely.
    How about an 8 year old? Death?

  5. #195
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    Re: Is the age of a dead burglar,assailant,armed robber, attempted rapist/murder rela

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Oh, let me clear up an apparent confusion you have. Martin wasn't on trial.

    GZ says Martin was feloniously assaulting him, but the bottom line is we don't know with certainty what Martin was doing nor what he was doing when GZ first saw him either. Not knowing means just that. It doesn't mean Martin was not involved in criminal activity or planning to do so. It means we don't know. Since Martin wasn't on trial, it doesn't matter.
    Where exactly did you get any of that
    The OP

    I noticed that some of the Treyvon Martin supporters keep bringing up the fact he was a kid and I know some people think it does matter that an assailant was a minor.So I thought I would ask the following question- Is the age of a dead burglar,assailant,bank robber, attempted rapist/murder relevant? For example if a burglar is killed inside someone's home should the homeowner be in legal trouble if that burglar is a minor? If a bank robber is killed while trying to rob a bank and that bank robber is a minor should that concerned citizen or security guard be in legal trouble?
    You haven't cleared up anything. He stated that when someone is committing a crime and someone shoots them does it matter their age. Martin wasn't robbing a bank, he was a rapist/murderer, he wasn't burglarizing a home.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

  6. #196
    Sage davidtaylorjr's Avatar
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    Re: Is the age of a dead burglar,assailant,armed robber, attempted rapist/murder rela

    Quote Originally Posted by windowdressing View Post
    How about an 8 year old? Death?
    I don't care of the age, if you can prove that they intentionally and deliberately killed someone, I would support life in prison and/or death penalty. Period.
    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.

    Ronald Reagan

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    Re: Is the age of a dead burglar,assailant,armed robber, attempted rapist/murder rela

    Quote Originally Posted by davidtaylorjr View Post
    I don't care of the age, if you can prove that they intentionally and deliberately killed someone, I would support life in prison and/or death penalty. Period.
    so if an 8-year old intended to kill someone, that's enough for you? She or he is old enough to make a sound decision to be fried for ... I have to say DT, you're a bit scary, but I'm so glad that you're on the other team ...

  8. #198
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    Re: Is the age of a dead burglar,assailant,armed robber, attempted rapist/murder rela

    Quote Originally Posted by davidtaylorjr View Post
    Yes I would. If the 12 year old intentionally killed someone, absolutely.
    So you are just pro-birth...not pro-life..

  9. #199
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    Re: Is the age of a dead burglar,assailant,armed robber, attempted rapist/murder rela

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Where exactly did you get any of that
    The OP



    You haven't cleared up anything. He stated that when someone is committing a crime and someone shoots them does it matter their age. Martin wasn't robbing a bank, he was a rapist/murderer, he wasn't burglarizing a home.
    The relevance to the GZ case is that it did not have to be shown TM was committing a crime.

    However, GZ's claim is that TM was violently assaulting him, thus putting TM into the category of "assailant," which is one of the "crimes" of the OP poll. The Defense did not have to prove TM was an assailant as TM was not on trial. Rather, the government had to prove beyond any reasonable doubt that GZ's actions were criminal within the definition of law.

    Because of the injuries to GZ, clearly he was assaulting TM, BUT TM may have had legal reason to do so. We'll never know. Without a doubt, GZ "assaulted" TM when he shot TM and without down GZ killed TM in that assault. However, the government could not prove - nor had the means to do so - that GZ assaulted/killed TM outside the allowances of the formal written laws.

    The purpose of the OP poll in relation to the GZ case is does it matter whether TM was 17 or 18 in terms of the right of GZ to use deadly force. I do not think it matters whether TM was 17 or 18.


    This may seem to not make sense, but does if you think about it. It is NOT legal to assault or kill someone. It is only illegal to illegally assault or illegally kill someone. Thus, in MY opinion, if instead TM had gotten hold of GZ's gun and killed GZ? For the evidence - and lack of it too - I'd vote not guilty on him too.

    Personally, both quickly got over both their heads and both went looking for trouble when they didn't have to. GZ didn't have to try to see where TM was going and TM certainly did not need to double back and approach GZ. In my opinion, both walked into this, it became a violent conflict between them step by step, so however it turned out is just how it turned out. Whichever one of them died, I would not have found the other criminally guilty.
    Last edited by joko104; 07-22-13 at 05:19 PM.

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    Re: Is the age of a dead burglar,assailant,armed robber, attempted rapist/murder rela

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    So you are just pro-birth...not pro-life..
    it's not unusual for anti-abortion folks to care about the life of the pre-born and not the born ...

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