View Poll Results: Is the age of a dead burglar,assailant,armed robber, attempted rapist/murder relavent

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Thread: Is the age of a dead burglar,assailant,armed robber, attempted rapist/murder relavent

  1. #161
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    Re: Is the age of a dead burglar,assailant,armed robber, attempted rapist/murder rela

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    A rubber bullet can be lethal, but rarely is. Bean bags are not.

    A serious camera offers no physical safety protection. We have many security cameras and 3 independent systems for them. But that a different matter.

    As much as firearms are secured, if there are accessible to be used in any quick way, there is a higher risk of a child or kids getting into it. There also is that inadvertent mental glitch where it is just set down and then there is some distraction etc.

    But the other reason is that why the slogan is "don't point a gun at anything you don't intend to kill," I don't agree with that slogan. There is a huge middle ground of hesitation, of the mind trying to instantly figure out a situation - possibly still half asleep or totally startled. Do you shoot or not? If you don't and you are wrong, you may then be assaulted or killed. If you do and you are wrong, you have killed someone for which it was unnecessary.

    There also is a curious psychology of the "criminal." Unlike Hollywood, most criminals won't stop, put their hands in the air or get down on the floor as commanded. 90+% of the time the person will FLEE or ATTACK. There are very REAL delay times between when a person sees something until the person can literally physically react to it.

    In that context, my wife (who is extremely trained in firearms and even in situational live-fire training - plus already extreme in developed motor, speed and coordination skills). But she is small, petite, and female (higher assault attempt likelihood.) I'm average at best with a firearm, but (not to try to be macho) I'm quite tough and very experienced in that regards. Her and I both have exact opposite rules concerning shooting "when in doubt." When in doubt, she is to shoot - because she is highly dependent on her firearm for her defense of herself and our family. When in doubt, I wouldn't shoot because I am not dependent on a firearm generally for defense.

    The rubber bullet/beanbag allows less risk in those grey areas. And dramatically reduces accidental gun deaths or shooting someone for which it truly wasn't necessary.

    Finally, a rubber bullet as the first round can tell you if it really is necessary. The person, of course, would not know it is a rubber bullet. Someone shot with a rubber bullet knows they've been shot, nothing else, in that first Instant. If you shot someone with a rubber bullet - and that person comes at you, then you know it is kill or be killed. How long does it take to just keep pulling the trigger? Plus it would demonstrate to the police/judge/jury/court you had not choice with the 2nd then lethal round.

    If GZ's first round had been a rubber bullet? At that range TM would have been repelled, certain he had been hit, the pain fantastic and TM likely then would have fled. It certainly would have startled TM for a second - enough for GZ to gather his wits too. GZ still would have had the remaining deadly rounds (actually, rubber bullets with then lethal rounds is only reliable in revolvers that do not rely on recoil for auto-loading).

    The reason for rubber bullets/bean bags is because in every way possible we want to avoid anyone accidently or wrongly killed by one of our firearms, but we also absolutely want them for self defense. So that is how WE balance the dilemma and diametric opposite considerations.

    Most guys on this forum tend to respond with a view that shooting someone with a rubber bullet is like shooting them with a plastic airsoft pellet. Actually, if close, it is like getting hit by someone hitting you as hard as they can with a hard rubber rounded end of a ballpeen hammer. But it 99% certain the person will live and fully recovery quickly.
    That was a good post, joko and well said. It looks like you've given it a lot more thought than most and it does sound like a reasonable compromise. I like that you considered who a potential burgler or intruder might be in your home and depending on the area or neighborhood a lot of times it is just neighborhood kids growing up and testing their boundries. Anyway, the rubber bullet/bean bag really is a good idea, all else considered.

  2. #162
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    Re: Is the age of a dead burglar,assailant,armed robber, attempted rapist/murder rela

    I have always been in confusion on this topic..i mean i accept that the convict is minor but he/she can't get away with that..i would have been a law officer i would have never able to decide whether to punish that person or not.

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    Re: Is the age of a dead burglar,assailant,armed robber, attempted rapist/murder rela

    Quote Originally Posted by LucilaEverman View Post
    I have always been in confusion on this topic..i mean i accept that the convict is minor but he/she can't get away with that..i would have been a law officer i would have never able to decide whether to punish that person or not.
    We have malicious little punks here who do what the hell they like, and get away with it..they know the law can't touch them..they laugh in cop's faces!!

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    Re: Is the age of a dead burglar,assailant,armed robber, attempted rapist/murder rela

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    A rubber bullet can be lethal, but rarely is. Bean bags are not.

    A serious camera offers no physical safety protection. We have many security cameras and 3 independent systems for them. But that a different matter.

    As much as firearms are secured, if there are accessible to be used in any quick way, there is a higher risk of a child or kids getting into it. There also is that inadvertent mental glitch where it is just set down and then there is some distraction etc.

    But the other reason is that why the slogan is "don't point a gun at anything you don't intend to kill," I don't agree with that slogan. There is a huge middle ground of hesitation, of the mind trying to instantly figure out a situation - possibly still half asleep or totally startled. Do you shoot or not? If you don't and you are wrong, you may then be assaulted or killed. If you do and you are wrong, you have killed someone for which it was unnecessary.

    There also is a curious psychology of the "criminal." Unlike Hollywood, most criminals won't stop, put their hands in the air or get down on the floor as commanded. 90+% of the time the person will FLEE or ATTACK. There are very REAL delay times between when a person sees something until the person can literally physically react to it.

    In that context, my wife (who is extremely trained in firearms and even in situational live-fire training - plus already extreme in developed motor, speed and coordination skills). But she is small, petite, and female (higher assault attempt likelihood.) I'm average at best with a firearm, but (not to try to be macho) I'm quite tough and very experienced in that regards. Her and I both have exact opposite rules concerning shooting "when in doubt." When in doubt, she is to shoot - because she is highly dependent on her firearm for her defense of herself and our family. When in doubt, I wouldn't shoot because I am not dependent on a firearm generally for defense.

    The rubber bullet/beanbag allows less risk in those grey areas. And dramatically reduces accidental gun deaths or shooting someone for which it truly wasn't necessary.

    Finally, a rubber bullet as the first round can tell you if it really is necessary. The person, of course, would not know it is a rubber bullet. Someone shot with a rubber bullet knows they've been shot, nothing else, in that first Instant. If you shot someone with a rubber bullet - and that person comes at you, then you know it is kill or be killed. How long does it take to just keep pulling the trigger? Plus it would demonstrate to the police/judge/jury/court you had not choice with the 2nd then lethal round.

    If GZ's first round had been a rubber bullet? At that range TM would have been repelled, certain he had been hit, the pain fantastic and TM likely then would have fled. It certainly would have startled TM for a second - enough for GZ to gather his wits too. GZ still would have had the remaining deadly rounds (actually, rubber bullets with then lethal rounds is only reliable in revolvers that do not rely on recoil for auto-loading).

    The reason for rubber bullets/bean bags is because in every way possible we want to avoid anyone accidently or wrongly killed by one of our firearms, but we also absolutely want them for self defense. So that is how WE balance the dilemma and diametric opposite considerations.

    Most guys on this forum tend to respond with a view that shooting someone with a rubber bullet is like shooting them with a plastic airsoft pellet. Actually, if close, it is like getting hit by someone hitting you as hard as they can with a hard rubber rounded end of a ballpeen hammer. But it 99% certain the person will live and fully recovery quickly.
    I've asked before why they don't have more options for guns with non-lethal ammunition. Something strong enough to definitely stop someone in their tracks, yet not kill them. It's a really great idea.

    However, then I have to think of episodes of Cops that I've seen where they have tased a man MULTIPLE times, yet he still keeps getting up and coming at them, so I guess non-lethal methods may not always be effective, depending on WHO you are dealing with.

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    Re: Is the age of a dead burglar,assailant,armed robber, attempted rapist/murder rela

    Quote Originally Posted by Smeagol View Post
    Zimmerman BECAME kind of chunky for the trial. And he ditched the skinhead look.

    I wouldn't personally characterize Martin as a burglar, assailant, murderer/rapist.
    Regardless, Martin was in better shape than Zimmerman, younger, probably more physically active and stronger. A 17 or 18 year old is going to have some physical advantages in a lot of instances over a 29 or 30 year old.

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    Re: Is the age of a dead burglar,assailant,armed robber, attempted rapist/murder rela

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    The guy that robbed our house was a kid who had run away from home and was living in his VW bus. His mother made a plea on TV for him to give himself up. I don't think he deserved to get shot or die for his crime, but I do think he needed a penalty that was equal to his crime along with some kind of counseling.
    I'm sorry, but if someone is breaking and entering my house in the middle of the night, I'm shooting first and asking questions later.

  7. #167
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    Re: Is the age of a dead burglar,assailant,armed robber, attempted rapist/murder rela

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    I'm sorry, but if someone is breaking and entering my house in the middle of the night, I'm shooting first and asking questions later.
    We didn't hear or see the kid breaking into our house because we were sound asleep. I only started asking questions when I couldn't find my purse.

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    Re: Is the age of a dead burglar,assailant,armed robber, attempted rapist/murder rela

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    Try telling yourself that when its YOUR house being robbed. The naivety of some people.....
    If its a 12 year old kid of course im gonna be pissed but i however believe that the sentence should be a hell of a lot lesser.


  9. #169
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    Re: Is the age of a dead burglar,assailant,armed robber, attempted rapist/murder rela

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Regardless, Martin was in better shape than Zimmerman, younger, probably more physically active and stronger. A 17 or 18 year old is going to have some physical advantages in a lot of instances over a 29 or 30 year old.

    I'm not sure if I agree with that. In fact, I don't, unless the 29 year old is very out of shape. I was a 98 lb weakling at 17. I was very fit at 29.


    As for the boys he recommends to stay away from weightlifting till the age of 18 and up to 5 kg weights till the age of 21. "It affects their posture, flexibility and growth," said Dr Fauzdar.


    http://articles.timesofindia.indiati...ghtlifting-age


    WARNING
    TeensHealth.org notes that bodybuilding, lifting heavy weights and powerlifting are not appropriate for teens and young boys because they put too much strain on developing muscles, joints and bones and carry a high risk of injury. According to MayoClinic.com, boys shouldn't do more than single sets of 12 to 15 repetitions of any weightlifting exercise, even with light weights.


    http://www.livestrong.com/article/32...fting-weights/
    Last edited by Smeagol; 07-20-13 at 11:26 PM.
    Having opinions all over the map is a good sign of a person capable of autonomous thinking. Felix -2011

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    Re: Is the age of a dead burglar,assailant,armed robber, attempted rapist/murder rela

    Quote Originally Posted by Smeagol View Post
    I'm not sure if I agree with that. In fact, I don't, unless the 29 year old is very out of shape. I was a 98 lb weakling at 17. I was very fit at 29.


    As for the boys he recommends to stay away from weightlifting till the age of 18 and up to 5 kg weights till the age of 21. "It affects their posture, flexibility and growth," said Dr Fauzdar.


    http://articles.timesofindia.indiati...ghtlifting-age


    WARNING
    TeensHealth.org notes that bodybuilding, lifting heavy weights and powerlifting are not appropriate for teens and young boys because they put too much strain on developing muscles, joints and bones and carry a high risk of injury. According to MayoClinic.com, boys shouldn't do more than single sets of 12 to 15 repetitions of any weightlifting exercise, even with light weights.


    What Age Can Boys Start Lifting Weights? | LIVESTRONG.COM
    Mmmm. Yeah, whatever. Trayvon was obviously quite physically fit.

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