View Poll Results: Is the age of a dead burglar,assailant,armed robber, attempted rapist/murder relavent

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  • yes

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Thread: Is the age of a dead burglar,assailant,armed robber, attempted rapist/murder relavent

  1. #151
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    Re: Is the age of a dead burglar,assailant,armed robber, attempted rapist/murder rela

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    It would be difficult to find a message on the forum this week I more disagree with.

    An 14 year old rapist is a teaching moment for the parents? What the hell does that mean?
    Parents need to press home and teach their sons to have respect for women, that no means no and that rape is not only inexcusable but also a ticket to a life in jail.
    Former military man (and now babysitter of Donald Trump) John Kelly, is a big loud lying empty barrel!

  2. #152
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    Re: Is the age of a dead burglar,assailant,armed robber, attempted rapist/murder rela

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Interesting, I didn't know you could load bean bags into shotguns or rubber bullets into firearms as a first round. That sounds like a good idea, joko. I haven't read the criticisms...but...a firearm loaded with rubber bullets and "if left out, not correctly put away, or somehow got into the hands of younger kids" ...can still be lethal. I've seen the welts those rubber bullets produce and they ain't pretty and if one hit a child in the head it could easily kill them and if that didn't, the second more lethal round surely would. There really is no excuse for a leaving a loaded weapon easily accessible in a house with children present, whether it has rubber bullets in it or not.

    Totally agree...except for the reason I mentioned above. If you're worried about not shooting a young kid trying to steal (which is not that uncommon) then why don't you get a security camera instead? That way you have the evidence and the kid isn't physically hurt or worse.

    Even the castle doctrine mentions 'reasonable' and 'reasonable force' doesn't it?
    A rubber bullet can be lethal, but rarely is. Bean bags are not.

    A serious camera offers no physical safety protection. We have many security cameras and 3 independent systems for them. But that a different matter.

    As much as firearms are secured, if there are accessible to be used in any quick way, there is a higher risk of a child or kids getting into it. There also is that inadvertent mental glitch where it is just set down and then there is some distraction etc.

    But the other reason is that why the slogan is "don't point a gun at anything you don't intend to kill," I don't agree with that slogan. There is a huge middle ground of hesitation, of the mind trying to instantly figure out a situation - possibly still half asleep or totally startled. Do you shoot or not? If you don't and you are wrong, you may then be assaulted or killed. If you do and you are wrong, you have killed someone for which it was unnecessary.

    There also is a curious psychology of the "criminal." Unlike Hollywood, most criminals won't stop, put their hands in the air or get down on the floor as commanded. 90+% of the time the person will FLEE or ATTACK. There are very REAL delay times between when a person sees something until the person can literally physically react to it.

    In that context, my wife (who is extremely trained in firearms and even in situational live-fire training - plus already extreme in developed motor, speed and coordination skills). But she is small, petite, and female (higher assault attempt likelihood.) I'm average at best with a firearm, but (not to try to be macho) I'm quite tough and very experienced in that regards. Her and I both have exact opposite rules concerning shooting "when in doubt." When in doubt, she is to shoot - because she is highly dependent on her firearm for her defense of herself and our family. When in doubt, I wouldn't shoot because I am not dependent on a firearm generally for defense.

    The rubber bullet/beanbag allows less risk in those grey areas. And dramatically reduces accidental gun deaths or shooting someone for which it truly wasn't necessary.

    Finally, a rubber bullet as the first round can tell you if it really is necessary. The person, of course, would not know it is a rubber bullet. Someone shot with a rubber bullet knows they've been shot, nothing else, in that first Instant. If you shot someone with a rubber bullet - and that person comes at you, then you know it is kill or be killed. How long does it take to just keep pulling the trigger? Plus it would demonstrate to the police/judge/jury/court you had not choice with the 2nd then lethal round.

    If GZ's first round had been a rubber bullet? At that range TM would have been repelled, certain he had been hit, the pain fantastic and TM likely then would have fled. It certainly would have startled TM for a second - enough for GZ to gather his wits too. GZ still would have had the remaining deadly rounds (actually, rubber bullets with then lethal rounds is only reliable in revolvers that do not rely on recoil for auto-loading).

    The reason for rubber bullets/bean bags is because in every way possible we want to avoid anyone accidently or wrongly killed by one of our firearms, but we also absolutely want them for self defense. So that is how WE balance the dilemma and diametric opposite considerations.

    Most guys on this forum tend to respond with a view that shooting someone with a rubber bullet is like shooting them with a plastic airsoft pellet. Actually, if close, it is like getting hit by someone hitting you as hard as they can with a hard rubber rounded end of a ballpeen hammer. But it 99% certain the person will live and fully recovery quickly.

  3. #153
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    Re: Is the age of a dead burglar,assailant,armed robber, attempted rapist/murder rela

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    I noticed that some of the Treyvon Martin supporters keep bringing up the fact he was a kid and I know some people think it does matter that an assailant was a minor.So I thought I would ask the following question- Is the age of a dead burglar,assailant,bank robber, attempted rapist/murder relevant? For example if a burglar is killed inside someone's home should the homeowner be in legal trouble if that burglar is a minor? If a bank robber is killed while trying to rob a bank and that bank robber is a minor should that concerned citizen or security guard be in legal trouble?
    It depends I thnk. If the assailant is unarmed and has the physical stature of a child and appears obvious that there would be no way a physically fit adult coud be overpowered by the child, then I think excessive force would be suspected. However I don't see how that applies to Trayvon Martin.
    Having opinions all over the map is a good sign of a person capable of autonomous thinking. Felix -2011

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    Re: Is the age of a dead burglar,assailant,armed robber, attempted rapist/murder rela

    Quote Originally Posted by Smeagol View Post
    It depends I thnk. If the assailant is unarmed and has the physical stature of a child and appears obvious that there would be no way a physically fit adult coud be overpowered by the child, then I think excessive force would be suspected. However I don't see how that applies to Trayvon Martin.
    I agree. He was the size of an adult and obviously in much better shape than George. George is kind of chunky.

  5. #155
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    Re: Is the age of a dead burglar,assailant,armed robber, attempted rapist/murder rela

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    A teens body grows a lot faster than their brain. So I'm inclined to agree.

    Of course theres always the exceptions who grow up taking care of their parents and siblings and are more mature than most adults.
    one of my best friends is the father of twins. His wife died of brain/breast cancer when the twins were 9. we buried her the day Bush v. Gore took place in the ballot box. The boy suffered from losing his mother. he has done ok but his twin sister was forced to grow up. At nine she was the lady of the manor so to say. She had to figure out a lot on her own, while her brother had a father to lean on. However, Several of the widower's friends stepped in-my wife and other ladies would take the girl to lunch, take her shopping in Chicago etc. But it was interesting to see what this tragedy did. The girl graduated with a high GPA from one of the finest colleges in the country and will be going to medical school in a year. Her brother-due to an accident, will graduate in a year from college-he was off a year due to injuries. But at 15 or 16, his sister was a woman. He was still a boy



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    Re: Is the age of a dead burglar,assailant,armed robber, attempted rapist/murder rela

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Yes.. Of course it does. If its like a kid, hell of course its relevant.
    Try telling yourself that when its YOUR house being robbed. The naivety of some people.....

  7. #157
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    Re: Is the age of a dead burglar,assailant,armed robber, attempted rapist/murder rela

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    I disagree. The mental capabilities of a child are not equal to that of an adult.
    But the result of the crime is the same.

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    Re: Is the age of a dead burglar,assailant,armed robber, attempted rapist/murder rela

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    But the result of the crime is the same.
    Maybe, but we usually do take people's mental status and maturity into consideration.

    I do think that if a juvenile commits a very serious crime, and they are like 16 or 17 and would only have to serve out a couple of years because they would turn 18 soon, that they should be able to extend the prison time so that it is an adequate prison term for the crime committed.

  9. #159
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    Re: Is the age of a dead burglar,assailant,armed robber, attempted rapist/murder rela

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    I agree. He was the size of an adult and obviously in much better shape than George. George is kind of chunky.
    Zimmerman BECAME kind of chunky for the trial. And he ditched the skinhead look.

    I wouldn't personally characterize Martin as a burglar, assailant, murderer/rapist.
    Having opinions all over the map is a good sign of a person capable of autonomous thinking. Felix -2011

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    Re: Is the age of a dead burglar,assailant,armed robber, attempted rapist/murder rela

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    Try telling yourself that when its YOUR house being robbed. The naivety of some people.....
    The guy that robbed our house was a kid who had run away from home and was living in his VW bus. His mother made a plea on TV for him to give himself up. I don't think he deserved to get shot or die for his crime, but I do think he needed a penalty that was equal to his crime along with some kind of counseling.

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