View Poll Results: Is the age of a dead burglar,assailant,armed robber, attempted rapist/murder relavent

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  • yes

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Thread: Is the age of a dead burglar,assailant,armed robber, attempted rapist/murder relavent

  1. #131
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    Re: Is the age of a dead burglar,assailant,armed robber, attempted rapist/murder rela

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    If you are advocating for treating teens as adults within the judicial and legal system, then you are advocating they be treated as adults in all venues.


    I haven't advocating for anything in this thread, other than raising kids to be more responsible by the time they are 16.

    Something that might have saved TM's life btw...

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  2. #132
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    Re: Is the age of a dead burglar,assailant,armed robber, attempted rapist/murder rela

    Okay, look, I'm very emotional about this subject. I can understand points that parents should teach their children, not coddle them, teach them responsibility and about life. But the basic facts are a lot of them do not. And to treat children (because that is what they are) as adults before they are ready for such responsibilities would only ADD to our problems. Also, a lot of parents WOULD throw their 16-year-old children out of home as soon as they are legally an adult.

    And you cannot hold a 16-year-old legally responsible as an adult yet deny them all the privileges that we as adults have, such as voting, driving, drinking, marrying, etc., etc., etc.

    Look at teen stats for driving, STDs, teen pregnancy rates, and other such things, they will show just how "responsible" most teens are in our current society.

  3. #133
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    Re: Is the age of a dead burglar,assailant,armed robber, attempted rapist/murder rela

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Teens that commit certain serious felonies are already treated as adults by the legal system in most states.


    The OP is about whether you would adjust your response to a threat based on the attackers' age. My answer was that it depends on the seriousness of the attack, more or less, and a capability of the attacker to carry out his intentions. In which case I'd be treating TM as an adult, because he'd be able to do adult-level damage to someone in a fight.
    I think that should depend on his history too though. If he has no history of violence and he beats someone up, I don't think he should be charged as an adult. If he has a history of gang membership and a record of violent crimes, then perhaps he should be looked at differently only because of the level of danger to society he might pose.

  4. #134
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    Re: Is the age of a dead burglar,assailant,armed robber, attempted rapist/murder rela

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    I think that should depend on his history too though. If he has no history of violence and he beats someone up, I don't think he should be charged as an adult. If he has a history of gang membership and a record of violent crimes, then perhaps he should be looked at differently only because of the level of danger to society he might pose.

    In many cases I'd have no way of knowing that, if I were the private citizen responding to an attack on my person by him. All I'd know is, in the TM case, is I'm being attacked by an adult-size teenager who seems to want to beat my head in.

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  5. #135
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    Re: Is the age of a dead burglar,assailant,armed robber, attempted rapist/murder rela

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Okay, look, I'm very emotional about this subject. I can understand points that parents should teach their children, not coddle them, teach them responsibility and about life. But the basic facts are a lot of them do not. And to treat children (because that is what they are) as adults before they are ready for such responsibilities would only ADD to our problems. Also, a lot of parents WOULD throw their 16-year-old children out of home as soon as they are legally an adult.

    And you cannot hold a 16-year-old legally responsible as an adult yet deny them all the privileges that we as adults have, such as voting, driving, drinking, marrying, etc., etc., etc.

    Look at teen stats for driving, STDs, teen pregnancy rates, and other such things, they will show just how "responsible" most teens are in our current society.

    Again, if you're arguing with someone other than me, please say so, because I'm not sure what you think I said.

    I very specifically said, in one post, that I had observed modern 16yo's and found them wanting. That is to say, dumber than a fracking shoe lace, on average.

    I went on to point out that they don't HAVE to be that oblivious and ignorant... I think we as a society are allowing it through lazy parenting and under-achieving schools, and that it is a problem.

    BTW, many 16yo's DO drive. 16 is the age of consent in most states. A good many 16yo's drink too, even though it is illegal. So they're already doing these things, maybe we should try to teach them to be more RESPONSIBLE and aware of the consequences of reckless driving, unprotected sex (or protected sex that goes wrong), and .... oh just off the top of my head... acting suspicious and then beating the snot out of a stranger on a dark and rainy night... oops...


    I have, and am now repeating myself, said that from what I've seen most modern teens are APPALLINGLY IRRESPONSIBLE AND IMMATURE. I'm also saying it doesn't have to be that way.

    I have said NOTHING about changing the age of majority in this thread.

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    Re: Is the age of a dead burglar,assailant,armed robber, attempted rapist/murder rela

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    In many cases I'd have no way of knowing that, if I were the private citizen responding to an attack on my person by him. All I'd know is, in the TM case, is I'm being attacked by an adult-size teenager who seems to want to beat my head in.
    I agree that you should be able to protect yourself no matter what, like I stated earlier in the thread. I was just referring the judicial process, if they are arrested for an assault that doesn't end up like the Zimmerman case.

  7. #137
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    Re: Is the age of a dead burglar,assailant,armed robber, attempted rapist/murder rela

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Again, if you're arguing with someone other than me, please say so, because I'm not sure what you think I said.

    I very specifically said, in one post, that I had observed modern 16yo's and found them wanting. That is to say, dumber than a fracking shoe lace, on average.

    I went on to point out that they don't HAVE to be that oblivious and ignorant... I think we as a society are allowing it through lazy parenting and under-achieving schools, and that it is a problem.

    BTW, many 16yo's DO drive. 16 is the age of consent in most states. A good many 16yo's drink too, even though it is illegal. So they're already doing these things, maybe we should try to teach them to be more RESPONSIBLE and aware of the consequences of reckless driving, unprotected sex (or protected sex that goes wrong), and .... oh just off the top of my head... acting suspicious and then beating the snot out of a stranger on a dark and rainy night... oops...


    I have, and am now repeating myself, said that from what I've seen most modern teens are APPALLINGLY IRRESPONSIBLE AND IMMATURE. I'm also saying it doesn't have to be that way.

    I have said NOTHING about changing the age of majority in this thread.
    I'm not addressing anyone in particular. There have been several posters who have advocated for 16 years old or even younger to be held legally responsible as adults, so I guess I'm addressing anyone who believes that.

    I agree with what you stated above, except I have to stress that just because that's the way it should be doesn't mean that's the way it ever will be.

  8. #138
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    Re: Is the age of a dead burglar,assailant,armed robber, attempted rapist/murder rela

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    I agree that you should be able to protect yourself no matter what, like I stated earlier in the thread. I was just referring the judicial process, if they are arrested for an assault that doesn't end up like the Zimmerman case.

    Then I would agree that their criminal history should be a factor in determining whether they are treated as a juvenile delinquent or an adult offender.... and I think in most cases this is standard practice in many states.

    But things like murder and rape typically up the ante...

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  9. #139
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    Re: Is the age of a dead burglar,assailant,armed robber, attempted rapist/murder rela

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Then I would agree that their criminal history should be a factor in determining whether they are treated as a juvenile delinquent or an adult offender.... and I think in most cases this is standard practice in many states.

    But things like murder and rape typically up the ante...
    Well sure, but IMO that would be more related to the level of danger to society that they pose, and of course intentional murder and rape would qualify as being dangerous.

    But I'm curious what you think about a case just within the past few years about a boy who shot and killed his stepmother, and he was 12 years old. Do you think he should spend the rest of his life in jail, as we might punish an adult for such a crime? Do you feel he could be rehabilitated because of his young age and taking into account that there may have been abuse/neglect or whatever in his life?

  10. #140
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    Re: Is the age of a dead burglar,assailant,armed robber, attempted rapist/murder rela

    Dead no, living yes.

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