View Poll Results: Is the age of a dead burglar,assailant,armed robber, attempted rapist/murder relavent

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  • yes

    11 18.64%
  • no

    36 61.02%
  • maybe/other

    12 20.34%
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Thread: Is the age of a dead burglar,assailant,armed robber, attempted rapist/murder relavent

  1. #91
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    Re: Is the age of a dead burglar,assailant,armed robber, attempted rapist/murder rela

    So a few years ago I heard this story. I tend to think it is true.

    A former boxer, pretty good boxer, he became a policeman after he had a good boxing career.
    One night he was called to respond to a disturbance at a night club. Some kids were fighting so he had to break them up. Caught one, asked him to get in the car to drive him to the police station. The kid, teenager, cried and said something like this:
    -Please mister, at least let me tie my shoelaces.
    The policeman accepted... the kid went down, took a knife he had hidden in his shoes and sliced the policemans' throat. He was dead before he hit the ground.

    Now this is to emphasize that anyone, no matter how well trained, how strong, how anything you want, can be killed by anyone else no matter how weak, how untrained, etc. As long as there is a way to do it.

  2. #92
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    Re: Is the age of a dead burglar,assailant,armed robber, attempted rapist/murder rela

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    I wouldn't trust anyone who wants to lower the age of consent. I MUST question their motives when 18 is only two more years. Why so young? Why not let them be children until they are 18, when all of the evidence points to the fact that most teens are actually still children?
    You do realize that 16 IS the age of consent in the majority of American States? 31 plus D.C. to be exact. There are 8 where it is 17 and only 11 where it is 18. Also, Most European nations are at 16, with the exception of maybe 4 where it is 18? (Poland, Andorra, Slovakia and some other...) in fact 90% of the nations of the world consider 16 the age of consent, including Canada.

    I'm not asking to lower it. I am simply stating that if it weren't for our current standards of health, food availability, lack of predation, and so on...16 would be the age when a young man and woman started a family and took care of their own business. History shows they were both fully capable and did it well, if they were brought up expecting they would do so.
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

  3. #93
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    Re: Is the age of a dead burglar,assailant,armed robber, attempted rapist/murder rela

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Of course, there are always going to be those who mature faster, but it's a good idea when dealing with such issues to overestimate rather than underestimate IMO.
    I agree especially since most laws are one size fits all. Eighteen is a good age to be considered an adult....although I left home at 17. I'd already graduated from HS so what difference would a few months make? I only had to move back home once before I could finally make it on my own.

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    Re: Is the age of a dead burglar,assailant,armed robber, attempted rapist/murder rela

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Regardless, I disagree completely with all of your ideas and have to wonder why you would want 16 year olds to be considered adults.
    This inference of some nefarious intent is beneath you. I simply think that we have been coddling teenagers to their detriment. Instead of acting like they need to be children for as long as possible I think we should be training them to be responsible people as soon as possible. I'm honestly looking at the likely collapse of the American economy in the not too distant future (and no I do not mean the Zombie Apocalypse). I think we need to start facing some serious realities and prepare our youth for the possibility they will need to help take care of themselves sooner rather than later.

    Whether you think that is "nefarious" or not, doesn't trouble me in the least.
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

  5. #95
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    Re: Is the age of a dead burglar,assailant,armed robber, attempted rapist/murder rela

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    I noticed that some of the Treyvon Martin supporters keep bringing up the fact he was a kid and I know some people think it does matter that an assailant was a minor.So I thought I would ask the following question- Is the age of a dead burglar,assailant,bank robber, attempted rapist/murder relevant? For example if a burglar is killed inside someone's home should the homeowner be in legal trouble if that burglar is a minor? If a bank robber is killed while trying to rob a bank and that bank robber is a minor should that concerned citizen or security guard be in legal trouble?
    Firstly, Travyon was not the criminal, he was the victim in this case.

    Secondly, the age of a suspect, even if it is a dead one is important and relevant. If a 10 year old gets peer pressured into the home of silly mr. Johnson and mr. Johnson recognizes that it is a 10 year old and still kills him then yes, the age of the suspect is important. And a security guard who shoots an armed robber will almost surely never be in trouble, except if he should see the weapon is a brightly colored water spraying pistol but I doubt that will ever happen.

    And age is important, in the US 12 year old children can be tried as adults or get decades worth of jail time, you can shoot a gun at just about any age, you can drive a car by 16, join the army etc. but when it comes to alcohol the state says young people are not able to drink until 21.

    Also the age is important as a learning tool, when a 15 year old bank robber is shoot, a 14 year old rapist is arrested it gives parents a teaching moment for their children. Learn, don't do drugs and stay on the good side of the law and you will most likely never be accused of murder, rape, etc.
    Former military man (and now babysitter of Donald Trump) John Kelly, is a big loud lying empty barrel!

  6. #96
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    Re: Is the age of a dead burglar,assailant,armed robber, attempted rapist/murder rela

    In questioning the prosecutor, Reuters asked about killing a "YOUNG child just walking home from the store" - meaning Reuters is going to continue to lie in its incessant campaign against American gun ownership.

    BUT I answered MAYBE, because "burglars" were included in the list. For home defense we actual have our main firearms for that having a first round of a rubber bullet (or beanbag) if a shotgun. It would take 1/2 second at the most for a lethal round if truly necessary. Many on the forum criticize this, but in fact we often do have children at our home, many guests, many visitors and young kids can also be burglars. The rubber bullet/beanbag is a safeguard in that just-in-case a firearm left out, not correctly put away, or somehow gotten into by one of the younger kids - and because we would not want kill a friend, relative or guest - or an 11 year old who snuck in at night to steal something - ie burglar.

    Take "burglar" off the list and you have violent crimes, so then it doesn't matter - although I could bandy the word "assault" in the sense of some young kid throwing a violent tantrum. But "burglary?" Yes, I think age matters particularly in the castle doctrine states where you can shoot a burglar basically just to shoot them. I do not want to kill a young kid trying to steal something. I do not want any lethal accidental gun deaths at our home either - and that is the 1/2 second compromise for those reasons. But I also think that margin actually allows us to shoot faster in any questionable situation - plus that'd be a damn good lessen for a 13 year old sneaking in to steal something anyway.

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    Re: Is the age of a dead burglar,assailant,armed robber, attempted rapist/murder rela

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    You do realize that 16 IS the age of consent in the majority of American States? 31 plus D.C. to be exact. There are 8 where it is 17 and only 11 where it is 18. Also, Most European nations are at 16, with the exception of maybe 4 where it is 18? (Poland, Andorra, Slovakia and some other...) in fact 90% of the nations of the world consider 16 the age of consent, including Canada.

    I'm not asking to lower it. I am simply stating that if it weren't for our current standards of health, food availability, lack of predation, and so on...16 would be the age when a young man and woman started a family and took care of their own business. History shows they were both fully capable and did it well, if they were brought up expecting they would do so.
    And I already agreed with that point, didn't I? I said times have changed and will continue to do so. We aren't going to go in reverse though.

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    Re: Is the age of a dead burglar,assailant,armed robber, attempted rapist/murder rela

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    This inference of some nefarious intent is beneath you. I simply think that we have been coddling teenagers to their detriment. Instead of acting like they need to be children for as long as possible I think we should be training them to be responsible people as soon as possible. I'm honestly looking at the likely collapse of the American economy in the not too distant future (and no I do not mean the Zombie Apocalypse). I think we need to start facing some serious realities and prepare our youth for the possibility they will need to help take care of themselves sooner rather than later.

    Whether you think that is "nefarious" or not, doesn't trouble me in the least.
    I'm not accusing you of anything. I simply stated I wonder about the motive of someone who wants to have teens be adults so quickly. Why the rush?

    Anyway, we're kind of getting off topic.

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    Re: Is the age of a dead burglar,assailant,armed robber, attempted rapist/murder rela

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    I agree especially since most laws are one size fits all. Eighteen is a good age to be considered an adult....although I left home at 17. I'd already graduated from HS so what difference would a few months make? I only had to move back home once before I could finally make it on my own.
    Yes, people tend to forget that life is much more complicated in modern times than it was in the 1800s for example. You have to KNOW a lot more to be able to make it and have a successful life. You have to be prepared.

  10. #100
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    Re: Is the age of a dead burglar,assailant,armed robber, attempted rapist/murder rela

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    I'm not accusing you of anything. I simply stated I wonder about the motive of someone who wants to have teens be adults so quickly. Why the rush?

    Anyway, we're kind of getting off topic.
    I think I answered the first question in my last post. Hopefully that was satisfactory, because with 17 trillion dollars in government deficit, businesses moving industry out of the country, others reducing full-time workers and replacing them with part-timers and temps, the huge student loan debt, the huge credit card debt, and banks trying to inflate the housing market again...I see the storm clouds a-comin.

    I voted "maybe/other" because I think we have been doing teenagers a disservice by training them to think "it's all good until you turn 18." Especially when it really isn't.

    So for me, if a juvenile is 13 or under, it should make a difference how they are treated in the OP's situation. If they are 14 or 15, I'm kinda on the fence. By 16? No, they need to start realizing that if they think they are adults, they need to start acting like one, and also expect to be treated like an adult.
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

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