View Poll Results: Do you think the Founding Fathers would be disapointed in the US.

Voters
89. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    60 67.42%
  • No

    16 17.98%
  • Maybe

    13 14.61%
Page 8 of 14 FirstFirst ... 678910 ... LastLast
Results 71 to 80 of 131

Thread: 71% Of Americans Believe The Founding Fathers Would Be Disappointed At The USA

  1. #71
    Sage
    Fisher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Last Seen
    12-06-13 @ 02:44 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    17,002

    Re: 71% Of Americans Believe The Founding Fathers Would Be Disappointed At The USA

    Quote Originally Posted by Verthaine View Post
    Sure,no problem.

    Gumbo (see server)-$13.95.
    Storytelling-$12,000.
    Tucking in -$2,000,000.
    (all taxes will be applicable).
    Will that be cash,check or credit?

    Credit card. Since the world is collapsing, I won't ever have to pay it back anyways.

  2. #72
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:52 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    89,706

    Re: 71% Of Americans Believe The Founding Fathers Would Be Disappointed At The USA

    They would look at our world wide power, our wealth, our success, our standard of living, our expansion of freedom in the society... and I do believe they would be astounded and very pleased.

    As if it mattered since they all have been gone for the past two centuries give or take.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  3. #73
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:35 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    57,077

    Re: 71% Of Americans Believe The Founding Fathers Would Be Disappointed At The USA

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    That's only a very recent development, over the past dozen years, and I believe the pendulum will swing back in the not to distant future while maintaining a sufficient level of security scrutiny. Whether or not you agree with what Snowden did, or how he did it, one has to thank him for bringing the issue to the forefront and making it a topic of discussion going forward. It sounds like there's bipartisan support in congress for new legislation or changes to the Patriot Act that will rein in what is seen as monitoring abuse, and that's a good thing.

    no, dude. This is in no way limited to the Patriot Act.

    consider, for example, the charges of the Anti-Federalist, Brutus:

    ...This power, exercised without limitation, will introduce itself into every corner of the city, and country-it will wait upon the ladies at their toilet, and will not leave them in any of their domestic concerns; it will accompany them to the ball, the play, and assembly; it will go with them when they visit, and will, on all occasions, sit beside them in their carriages, nor will it desert them even at church; it will enter the house of every gentleman, watch over his cellar, wait upon his cook in the kitchen, follow the servants into the parlor, preside over the table, and note down all he eats or drinks; it will attend him to his bedchamber, and watch him while he sleeps; it will take cognizance of the professional man in his office, or his study; it will watch the merchant in the counting-house, or in his store; it will follow the mechanic to his shop, and in his work, and will haunt him in his family, and in his bed; it will be a constant companion of the industrious farmer in all his labor, it will be with him in the house, and in the field, observe the toil of his hands, and the sweat of his brow; it will penetrate into the most obscure cottage; and finally, it will light upon the head of every person in the United States. To all these different classes of people, and in all these circumstances, in which it will attend them, the language in which it will address them, will be GIVE! GIVE! A power that has such latitude, which reaches every person in the community in every conceivable circumstance, and lays hold of every species of property they possess, and which has no bounds set to it, but the discretion of those who exercise it-I say, such a power must necessarily, from its very nature, swallow up all the power of the state governments. I shall add but one other observation on this head, which is this: It appears to me a solecism, for two men, or bodies of men, to have unlimited power respecting the same object. It contradicts the ... maxim, which saith, "no man can serve two masters," the one power or the other must prevail, or else they will destroy each other, and neither of them effect their purpose. It may be compared to two mechanic powers, acting upon the same body in opposite directions, the consequence would be, if the powers were equal, the body would remain in a state of rest, or if the force of the one was superior to that of the other, the stronger would prevail, and overcome the resistance of the weaker. But it is said, by some of the advocates of this system, that "the idea that Congress can levy taxes at pleasure is false, and the suggestion wholly unsupported. The preamble to the constitution is declaratory of the purposes of the [our] union, and the assumption of any power not necessary to establish justice, etc., provide for the common defense, etc., will be unconstitutional....
    Now, are you going to tell me he didn't turn out to be rather prescient?

  4. #74
    Guru
    Verthaine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Last Seen
    09-08-16 @ 02:24 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    3,044

    Re: 71% Of Americans Believe The Founding Fathers Would Be Disappointed At The USA

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    Credit card. Since the world is collapsing, I won't ever have to pay it back anyways.
    Not a problem.The world may be collapsing,but the wealthy and powerful seems to be in a good position not only to not only survive it,but possibly prosper from it.

    In practically every empire that ever existed,somebody (whether it was from within or outside the empire) had to come out ahead over everyone else
    Or at least had a good escape plan..and have someone else pay the bill.

  5. #75
    Sage
    Fisher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Last Seen
    12-06-13 @ 02:44 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    17,002

    Re: 71% Of Americans Believe The Founding Fathers Would Be Disappointed At The USA

    Quote Originally Posted by Verthaine View Post
    Not a problem.The world may be collapsing,but the wealthy and powerful seems to be in a good position not only to not only survive it,but possibly prosper from it.

    In practically every empire that ever existed,somebody (whether it was from within or outside the empire) had to come out ahead over everyone else
    Or at least had a good escape plan..and have someone else pay the bill.

    Fine. Since I left my feet sticking out from the safety of the blankets you can whack them off and make gumbo out of them and we can call it even

    Society is fine. There is an ebb and flow to all this, and people have been dooming and glooming for as long as recorded history.

  6. #76
    Guru
    Verthaine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Last Seen
    09-08-16 @ 02:24 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    3,044

    Re: 71% Of Americans Believe The Founding Fathers Would Be Disappointed At The USA

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    Fine. Since I left my feet sticking out from the safety of the blankets you can whack them off and make gumbo out of them and we can call it even

    Society is fine. There is an ebb and flow to all this, and people have been dooming and glooming for as long as recorded history.
    Fully agree.So far,not a single person's prediction of the world ending has come true.

    And those feet of you had better be of the finest quality.My customers deserve no less.

  7. #77
    The Light of Truth
    Northern Light's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:37 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    4,954

    Re: 71% Of Americans Believe The Founding Fathers Would Be Disappointed At The USA

    The question is sort of a platitude really, and people will answer based on their current level of national pride. Most of the founding fathers were aristocrats, womanizers, and slave owners. Back then it was normal.

    I think the truth is that they wouldn't recognize America due to all the radical changes in the past few hundred years. Muskets and gunpower... and now we have weapons that could wipe out this whole planet several times over.

  8. #78
    Global Moderator
    The Truth is out there.
    Kal'Stang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Bonners Ferry ID USA
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    32,857
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: 71% Of Americans Believe The Founding Fathers Would Be Disappointed At The USA

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    As an outsider looking in, I have no idea what the 71% can possibly be thinking. The Founding Fathers would find a country that has advanced far beyond anything they may have believed possible while at the same time holding true to the principles upon which the country was built.

    The Founding Fathers may be disappointed in some of the citizens of your great country who don't appreciate the wonder they helped create and the way in which your government has veered off course into areas best left to the people, but all in all I believe they'd be very proud.
    Oh they would no doubt be quite proud at most of our technological achievements and may even be proud of some of the cultural changes. But all in all they would be very disappointed at our government and probably be disappointed in some other cultural aspects. In fact I would surmise that if one were able to travel back in time to just before they made our Constitution, bring them to our time, educated them on how our society is right now and how our government is currently acting that when you brought them back they would definitely be making some very big changes in the Constitution.

    No offense CJ but as an outsider I don't think that you would be able to fully grasp how our Founding Fathers were thinking at the time. Your culture in Canada is quite a bit different than ours in the US. Similar in certain aspects sure, but different none the less. I say this as an outsider looking at your own country and my understanding of it compared to my understanding of my own culture and bailiwick.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

  9. #79
    Canadian Conservative
    CanadaJohn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:54 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    27,182

    Re: 71% Of Americans Believe The Founding Fathers Would Be Disappointed At The USA

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Oh they would no doubt be quite proud at most of our technological achievements and may even be proud of some of the cultural changes. But all in all they would be very disappointed at our government and probably be disappointed in some other cultural aspects. In fact I would surmise that if one were able to travel back in time to just before they made our Constitution, bring them to our time, educated them on how our society is right now and how our government is currently acting that when you brought them back they would definitely be making some very big changes in the Constitution.

    No offense CJ but as an outsider I don't think that you would be able to fully grasp how our Founding Fathers were thinking at the time. Your culture in Canada is quite a bit different than ours in the US. Similar in certain aspects sure, but different none the less. I say this as an outsider looking at your own country and my understanding of it compared to my understanding of my own culture and bailiwick.
    All fair points and no offense taken. Perhaps it's just one of those "the grass is always greener on the other side" things, or "you don't know what you've got til it's gone" things. Same thing happens here in Canada - we've got it so good that sometimes we forget.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

  10. #80
    Uncanny
    Paschendale's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    New York City
    Last Seen
    03-31-16 @ 04:08 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Socialist
    Posts
    12,510

    Re: 71% Of Americans Believe The Founding Fathers Would Be Disappointed At The USA

    This suggests to me that very few people actually know much about what any of the individual founders thought, and that many people think they were a homogeneous group that didn't fight bitterly, often about the same subjects we argue about now. Most people just declare that the founders would agree with whatever position they espouse.

    Some would be all about the guns, while others would think it insane that so many people carry weapons. Some would think that social support systems were wastes of energy, while others would think them necessary. Some would think that religious morality is outdated and should be discarded, while others would support castrating homosexuals. Some would think that ensuring that every American can vote is paramount, while others would be upset that women can vote.

    Invoking the hypothetical approval or disproval of people who died two centuries ago is a fruitless pursuit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sisyphus View Post
    Pretty sad that such a high percentage of those responding to the poll know so little about our Founders. In fact, they'd be blown away to see what a global powerhouse their experiment in self-governance has become, not to mention how many countries now emulate what they created.

    They'd be giddy.
    I agree. Amazed is probably the only thing we can accurately guess that they would be.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

Page 8 of 14 FirstFirst ... 678910 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •