View Poll Results: Do you think the Founding Fathers would be disapointed in the US.

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  • Yes

    60 67.42%
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    16 17.98%
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Thread: 71% Of Americans Believe The Founding Fathers Would Be Disappointed At The USA

  1. #111
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    Re: 71% Of Americans Believe The Founding Fathers Would Be Disappointed At The USA

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    I agree slavery was virtually everywhere but not everyone agreed with it, including some of our founders. By 1807 Britain outlawed it (in Britain, I believe most of their colonies still had it). Something like that doesn't come out of nowhere, there had to have been some kind of movement that direction for several decades prior to 1807.
    And where did the movement start? In England and the US. Not in South America, Eastern Europe, Asia or the Mideast. Those places maintained slavery, of their own people even, long after the US abandoned slavery. Additionally, slavery exists in many places today.

    Trying to portray the founders as remorseless slavers ignores historical context. It's taking something that was everywhere and trying to pretend that it mattered so much more in a particular place. Further, that the particular place was at the forefront of abandoning slavery only makes such remarks all the more out of place. Lastly, trying to claim that the founders, today, would be disappointed that slavery is gone is nonsense. One cannot simply pull someone out of basically ancient history and pretend they'd be the same today.

  2. #112
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    Re: 71% Of Americans Believe The Founding Fathers Would Be Disappointed At The USA

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    And where did the movement start? In England and the US. Not in South America, Eastern Europe, Asia or the Mideast. Those places maintained slavery, of their own people even, long after the US abandoned slavery. Additionally, slavery exists in many places today.

    Trying to portray the founders as remorseless slavers ignores historical context. It's taking something that was everywhere and trying to pretend that it mattered so much more in a particular place. Further, that the particular place was at the forefront of abandoning slavery only makes such remarks all the more out of place. Lastly, trying to claim that the founders, today, would be disappointed that slavery is gone is nonsense. One cannot simply pull someone out of basically ancient history and pretend they'd be the same today.
    I had no intention of portraying them all that way. In fact, if you'll check, I made comment - twice - that some of the founders voiced their negative opinions of it.

    I think a few of them would be disappointed, obviously, because they fought to keep the practice at the time but most of the founders would be happy it's gone.


    My intention was to point out that slavery was not a given at the time, which you seemed to imply. Everyone accepted it for the Constitution because without it there wouldn't have been 13 colonies, there would have been only 10 at best. Less than 100 years later that dispute was partially resolved by the Civil War.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 07-18-13 at 02:17 PM.
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  3. #113
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    Re: 71% Of Americans Believe The Founding Fathers Would Be Disappointed At The USA

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    I had no intention of portraying them all that way.
    Portraying any ancient figure that way is BS.

  4. #114
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    Re: 71% Of Americans Believe The Founding Fathers Would Be Disappointed At The USA

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Portraying any ancient figure that way is BS.
    Our founders did what they did, why not talk about it - good or bad?
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
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  5. #115
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    Re: 71% Of Americans Believe The Founding Fathers Would Be Disappointed At The USA

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Our founders did what they did, why not talk about it - good or bad?
    You've changed the subject. You were on about how founders, TODAY, would be thinking as they were over 200 years ago. And that's a big pile of crap, as I've clearly explained from several angles.

  6. #116
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    Re: 71% Of Americans Believe The Founding Fathers Would Be Disappointed At The USA

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    You've changed the subject. You were on about how founders, TODAY, would be thinking as they were over 200 years ago. And that's a big pile of crap, as I've clearly explained from several angles.
    I do not believe that all of our founders would like the abolition of slavery. There are still people living in the US right now that don't like it. I have no reason to believe the Southern founders that fought for it at the time would be any different.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
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  7. #117
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    Re: 71% Of Americans Believe The Founding Fathers Would Be Disappointed At The USA

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    I do not believe that all of our founders would like the abolition of slavery. There are still people living in the US right now that don't like it. I have no reason to believe the Southern founders that fought for it at the time would be any different.
    And you have no reason to believe they'd be the same.

    Good day.

  8. #118
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    Re: 71% Of Americans Believe The Founding Fathers Would Be Disappointed At The USA

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    And you have no reason to believe they'd be the same.

    Good day.
    Just as you have no reason to believe they'd be different.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
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    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
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  9. #119
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    Re: 71% Of Americans Believe The Founding Fathers Would Be Disappointed At The USA

    I think the founding fathers would be disappointed that so many people would ask what people 2 and a half centuries ago would have thought.

  10. #120
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    Re: 71% Of Americans Believe The Founding Fathers Would Be Disappointed At The USA

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Just as you have no reason to believe they'd be different.
    Then we agree, your argument is without intellectual foundation or meaning. Basically, race baiting.

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