View Poll Results: Why do you still support our system of government?

Voters
44. You may not vote on this poll
  • Iím one of the 15% - 20% who think it is working properly.

    3 6.82%
  • Iím one of the 15% - 20% but think any problems can easily be fixed.

    2 4.55%
  • Iím among the 15% - 20% but think itís not the system itís the party running it.

    1 2.27%
  • Iím among the 80% - 85% but think itís not the system but the people running it.

    17 38.64%
  • Iím among the 80% - 85% but donít think there is anything we can do about it.

    3 6.82%
  • Iím among the 80% - 85% but donít think thereís enough support to reinvent it.

    7 15.91%
  • Iím among the 80% - 85% and am willing to act, just waiting for the right time.

    8 18.18%
  • Iím among the 80% - 85% but just donít give a crap.

    0 0%
  • Iím not American, and not that concernd about your mess.

    3 6.82%
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Thread: Why do you still support our system of government?

  1. #81
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    Re: Why do you still support our system of government?

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post


    No. Actually we are a semi-social predator species. We have and almost always have fought over control of/access to space and resources. While not a 100% analogy, the species closest to us in behavior is the Wolf.
    This is why humans and dogs get along so well. We are pretty social, understand hierarchy and social structure, are able to cooperate for mutual gain, but are in the final analysis predators. We are much like wolves who have developed the intelligence to build civilizations and cooperate in groups much larger than packs.
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  2. #82
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    Re: Why do you still support our system of government?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    You do know that the Fed is a privately owned company right? All of that money printing and manipulation of interest is done for the profit of its owners. It is a corporation that owns the government, not the other way around.
    So an institution whose head is appointed by the government of the United States is a privately owned company? An institution given monopoly powers to create money and set interest rates by the government is a privately owned company? What other companies can do that? How are you defining private, exactly? You are conflating independent of checks and balances with private. Its as private as the NSA.
    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."
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  3. #83
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    Re: Why do you still support our system of government?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    And what options are they giving us? The ones we want? If not then why are we voting for them at all?

    What do you suppose would be the ultimate result of a Senate election where only 1% of the people who voted, voted for one of the two candidates in the race? You don't think both parties would take a good long look at that missing 99% and realize the potential to try to grab more votes?.
    Honestly? The people who got elected would act as if they still reperesented the people. Of course it would be the tiny number who voted that they would be representing. There is nothing in our Constitution that REQUIRES a person to vote. At best, the winner is whoever gets a plurality of the popular vote, i.e. of the number that participated in the vote.

    Maybe they would try to do things to increase voting, maybe not. It depends on how radicalized the non-voting group was to determine how much of a real threat to the power structure they might become.

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    It may take a wordsmith to understand it but there's no reason all the wordsmiths can't get the word out as to what's really being said. Here, the newspaper is pretty good at telling us us when something is worded oddly on the ballot, which sometimes happens not so much to mislead people as just the way the legislation worked itself out in the state house or city council or whatever. It's not that hard to tell what you're voting on if you've been paying attention. If you've been asleep at the wheel until election day then it's not so obvious. It all comes back to the People taking the time to make the system work.
    Sorry, you seem to forget that most news outlets are controlled by corporate media magnates, they publish what they want you to see and hear. Furthermore, it takes MONEY to get the word out, and more money to counter the wealthy oppositions continuous propaganda. There is also the consideration of which outlets people follow, most don't cross political lines to seek the other perspective.

    In any case, you'd still need to have a fairly radicalized population and well-funded war chest to try that. It's why such attempts usually end up failing in referendum States.

    I feel for your position, but perhaps a more realistic explanation of how to achieve it would help?
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

  4. #84
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    Re: Why do you still support our system of government?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    So an institution whose head is appointed by the government of the United States is a privately owned company? An institution given monopoly powers to create money and set interest rates by the government is a privately owned company? What other companies can do that? How are you defining private, exactly? You are conflating independent of checks and balances with private. Its as private as the NSA.
    It's a for profit corporation that doesn't issue shares. It's private in that it is owned by a small number of people, who reap all the profits from its activities. It was given those monopoly powers by bribed politicians. The oversight by the government doesn't change its overall mission, especially when it can afford to bribe (campaign funding) politicians now, too.
    Libertť. …galitť. Fraternitť.

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    Re: Why do you still support our system of government?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    It's a for profit corporation that doesn't issue shares. It's private in that it is owned by a small number of people, who reap all the profits from its activities. It was given those monopoly powers by bribed politicians. The oversight by the government doesn't change its overall mission, especially when it can afford to bribe (campaign funding) politicians now, too.
    I don't see how "being owned by a small number of people" is a good definition of private. I consider private to be a term referencing free markets, and the Fed is not free market in nature at all. Nor would I call it socialist. As you say, it was created by bribed politicians. But its existence relies on the government. The chairman of the Fed is appointed by the President of the United States. Therefore, it cannot be considered private. Its just a monstrous arm of government created by corrupt private bankers--a beacon of corporatism.
    Last edited by Lakryte; 07-13-13 at 11:42 PM.
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  6. #86
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    Re: Why do you still support our system of government?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    Sounds like neo-anythings are a problem, given the damage that neoconservatives have done, too. The trouble is, what do you call the next wave? Neoneos?
    You just love to argue, don't you?

  7. #87
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    Re: Why do you still support our system of government?

    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Light View Post
    You just love to argue, don't you?
    He's a Droog, it's in his nature.
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

  8. #88
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    Re: Why do you still support our system of government?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    Honestly? The people who got elected would act as if they still reperesented the people. Of course it would be the tiny number who voted that they would be representing. There is nothing in our Constitution that REQUIRES a person to vote. At best, the winner is whoever gets a plurality of the popular vote, i.e. of the number that participated in the vote.

    Maybe they would try to do things to increase voting, maybe not. It depends on how radicalized the non-voting group was to determine how much of a real threat to the power structure they might become.
    You don't have to be violent radical to get things done. It's a competition that neither side wants to loose. Both parties would see that 99% non-participation rate as either a threat or a plumb waiting to be picked. They should both see that it would be relatively easy for a third party candidate that the people do like to win in such a situation. I'm sure it wouldn't change the first time it happened but the second or third? You bet things would start changing.


    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    Sorry, you seem to forget that most news outlets are controlled by corporate media magnates, they publish what they want you to see and hear. Furthermore, it takes MONEY to get the word out, and more money to counter the wealthy oppositions continuous propaganda. There is also the consideration of which outlets people follow, most don't cross political lines to seek the other perspective.

    In any case, you'd still need to have a fairly radicalized population and well-funded war chest to try that. It's why such attempts usually end up failing in referendum States.

    I feel for your position, but perhaps a more realistic explanation of how to achieve it would help?
    Are YOU a corporate controlled media outlet? Is DP? Today of all times in our past we don't have to rely on the printed word that's put on our doorstep nor do we have to take the word of the talking heads. Data is available to everyone and almost anyone can post an opinion on it. Many good authors that write for eZines have their own websites and aren't forced to kowtow to the media corps. The fact is good data is available if you're willing to look for it, especially today. Again, it's all a matter of participation.
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  9. #89
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    Re: Why do you still support our system of government?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Are YOU a corporate controlled media outlet? Is DP? Today of all times in our past we don't have to rely on the printed word that's put on our doorstep nor do we have to take the word of the talking heads. Data is available to everyone and almost anyone can post an opinion on it. Many good authors that write for eZines have their own websites and aren't forced to kowtow to the media corps. The fact is good data is available if you're willing to look for it, especially today. Again, it's all a matter of participation.
    No, but I am a poor individual who has barely enough money for my own needs, and can't afford the time or gas money to try to knock on every door in my voting district. Besides, knocking doesn't guarantee an answer, nor does proselytizing (online or in person) guarantee an audience.

    Believe me, when I was an activist back in the 70's I did what you are talking about. (Wasn't an "internet" back then of course). People are just too disinterested.
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

  10. #90
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    Re: Why do you still support our system of government?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    Believe me, when I was an activist back in the 70's I did what you are talking about. (Wasn't an "internet" back then of course). People are just too disinterested.
    Which is exactly what I said in my first post ...

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    <snip> The problem is with potential American voters. If we took more interest, then we could change things but most have succumbed to apathy. They simply can't "waste their time" on politics or political issues; Their lives are too hectic and complex as it is. <snip>
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 07-14-13 at 07:17 AM.
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    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

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