View Poll Results: Why do you still support our system of government?

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  • Iím one of the 15% - 20% who think it is working properly.

    3 6.82%
  • Iím one of the 15% - 20% but think any problems can easily be fixed.

    2 4.55%
  • Iím among the 15% - 20% but think itís not the system itís the party running it.

    1 2.27%
  • Iím among the 80% - 85% but think itís not the system but the people running it.

    17 38.64%
  • Iím among the 80% - 85% but donít think there is anything we can do about it.

    3 6.82%
  • Iím among the 80% - 85% but donít think thereís enough support to reinvent it.

    7 15.91%
  • Iím among the 80% - 85% and am willing to act, just waiting for the right time.

    8 18.18%
  • Iím among the 80% - 85% but just donít give a crap.

    0 0%
  • Iím not American, and not that concernd about your mess.

    3 6.82%
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Thread: Why do you still support our system of government?

  1. #151
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    Re: Why do you still support our system of government?

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    Under Hoppe's system they certainly do have the authority to remove people because it is their land.

    I don't think Hobbes is talking about shunning when he refers to 'forcibly removing' anyone who doesn't abide by his elitist standards.

    So as long as the land is the 'private property' of the landlord then feudalism is 'libertarian'? I disagree with this notion.

    There is nothing libertarian about a select group of elitists having the power to physically remove people who don't agree with their views.

    He wants the land to be 'homesteaded' which has very broad meaning when it comes to Austrians. To many Austrians that simply means stepping onto a piece of unclaimed land and declaring that everything he/she can see to the horizon is now theirs, which is imo a ludicrous way to look at property rights.

    As you saw in his quotes about removing people from society he clearly does advocate aggression (though he may not admit it).
    I guess I just disagree that removing someone from one's own property is an initiation of violence. A trespasser has no right to be on my land, so I would have no ethical objection to removing him.

    And, in my opinion, it doesn't make me a monarch.

  2. #152
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    Re: Why do you still support our system of government?

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    I guess I just disagree that removing someone from one's own property is an initiation of violence. A trespasser has no right to be on my land, so I would have no ethical objection to removing him.

    And, in my opinion, it doesn't make me a monarch.
    A landlord is a government. Property in land is completely artificial.
    A Landlord is a Government: The Libertarian Basis for Land Rights | Liberty Thinkers
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
    http://www.wealthandwant.com/

  3. #153
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    Re: Why do you still support our system of government?

    Why do I still support our government? Because any meaningful action that withdraws my support would be considered an act of treason. The government would have the media cast me as a conspiratorial quack or a mental case, everyone and their brother would call me a terrorist who hates them for their freedom, I'd be shuffled off to Gitmo or someplace far worse and forgot about. Does that answer the question well enough?

  4. #154
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    Re: Why do you still support our system of government?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    Why do I still support our government? Because any meaningful action that withdraws my support would be considered an act of treason. The government would have the media cast me as a conspiratorial quack or a mental case, everyone and their brother would call me a terrorist who hates them for their freedom, I'd be shuffled off to Gitmo or someplace far worse and forgot about. Does that answer the question well enough?
    Nope. You forgot about the obligatory waterboarding period, followed by anal probing with an MP's baton...then being abandoned for alien pickup at the Area 51 military reserve. That would have covered it.
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

  5. #155
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    Re: Why do you still support our system of government?

    For all its flaws and imperfections, I still have yet to see a better option.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

  6. #156
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    Re: Why do you still support our system of government?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    For all its flaws and imperfections, I still have yet to see a better option.
    A`better option would be to eliminate the majority of it's flaws. Flaws created by an obsessive expansion of it's powers.
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

  7. #157
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    Re: Why do you still support our system of government?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    A`better option would be to eliminate the majority of it's flaws. Flaws created by an obsessive expansion of it's powers.
    Agreed, but your response suggests that we're not viewing the question the same way. What I mean is that I support our system of government in an overall sense, but that's just it... I support the system... and I most certainly feel there is need for improvement. I just don't see said improvement necessitating the complete discarding of the overall system.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

  8. #158
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    Re: Why do you still support our system of government?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Agreed, but your response suggests that we're not viewing the question the same way. What I mean is that I support our system of government in an overall sense, but that's just it... I support the system... and I most certainly feel there is need for improvement. I just don't see said improvement necessitating the complete discarding of the overall system.
    Thanks, I did misunderstand. I can also agree with this position.
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

  9. #159
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    Re: Why do you still support our system of government?

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    A landlord is a government. Property in land is completely artificial.
    A Landlord is a Government: The Libertarian Basis for Land Rights | Liberty Thinkers
    I disagree. A landlord is still subject to the laws of the government. For example, the government forbids, say, murder. If a landlord truly were a government, he could declare murder legal in his "country". He can't.

    Because he's not a government.

  10. #160
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    Re: Why do you still support our system of government?

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    I disagree. A landlord is still subject to the laws of the government. For example, the government forbids, say, murder. If a landlord truly were a government, he could declare murder legal in his "country". He can't.

    Because he's not a government.
    Good try at sidestepping the issue!
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