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Thread: What is most responsible for Christianity's failure in the West?

  1. #221
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    Re: What is most responsible for Christianity's failure in the West?

    Quote Originally Posted by greyhat View Post
    We can't get rid if religion bc it is a control tool for the masses. It must be preserved; sometimes even a facade serves as good cover.
    Control masses? Why?
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    Stats come out and always show life getting better. News makes money in making you think its not.
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    Re: What is most responsible for Christianity's failure in the West?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightning View Post
    If Albert Einstein himself could not disprove creation in pursuit of the truth while researching his theories (which by the way lead to his belief in a beginning), what makes you think that you have found the truth of the universe?
    Einstein also believed in the Steady State universe, so much so that he made what he himself called his greatest blunder just to squeeze that belief into his equations.
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  3. #223
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    Re: What is most responsible for Christianity's failure in the West?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightning View Post
    So according to you the sins of a few justifies the condemnation of the whole? You live in CA, a state where pot is legal. According to you, if you are a supporter of the legalization of canibis, that makes a good for nothing, delusional pot-head who has "moments of clarity" during highs and posts things on this forum. That's of course according to your narrow view of Chrisitanity.
    I am not a supporter of drug legalization and in California, it is legal for medical purposes only, not for general use. However, you're wrong. It isn't the "sins" of the few that bring condemnation on them all, all theists, be it Christians or Muslims or Jews or Hindus, etc. believe in something for which they can produce no objective evidence that it's actually so. There is no fundamental difference between a Christian and someone who believes in Bigfoot or alien abductions. The delusional deserve condemnation.

    Tell me Cephus, were you present during creation? Were you present during the Big Bang? Isn't what you perceive as logic just a series of processed thoughts that your mind believes to be truth? Isn't logic just an ideal conjured by the mind of Greek philosophers who were also trying to understand the universe and its mysteries?
    Nope, were you? I didn't have to be though because we have something called objective evidence and a methodology called science that has proven to be the only single methodology that produces demonstrably true predictive results. Whereas science produced that computer you're typing on and the Internet and every modern convenience that you enjoy, what has religion given to us? Wars? Intolerance? Fantasy?

    If Albert Einstein himself could not disprove creation in pursuit of the truth while researching his theories (which by the way lead to his belief in a beginning), what makes you think that you have found the truth of the universe?
    There was a beginning to our universe, it's borne out by the evidence. That doesn't mean the universe began as an intelligent creative act. Only a moron would think that.

    Point being, your belief that Christianity is as fake as Candy land is farce. I don't profess to know the truth either, no one knows if God is real or not.
    No one knows to any degree of absolute certainty, but then again, absolute certainty isn't a factor in most rational decisions. However, judging by the objective evidence, it seems absurd to think there is some magical father figure in the sky that intimately cares what goes on in people's bedrooms. As science advances, all of those little cracks and crevices that religion has tried to shove God into become revealed to be part of nature. You people are running out of places to hide your God.

    Your response makes you seem rather irrational.
    You let me know when you have any actual, defensible, objective evidence for the factual existence of your God. Until then, I'm not going to believe it. That's about as rational as it gets.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  4. #224
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    Re: What is most responsible for Christianity's failure in the West?

    Quote Originally Posted by HumanBeing View Post
    Wait what? My theology believes in hell? Since when? This isn't about my theology, it's about the biblical references to punishment in the afterlife for not believing in God and Jesus. Can people ignore it and still call themselves Christians? Sure. I could call myself a Jew today, Muslim tomorrow, and a Christian on Monday without ever changing my beliefs. It wouldn't mean I was actually a believer in any of those religions (I'm not, incidentally).
    Give me a verse, If you wan't to debate hell we can do that.

    My point is you have many theologians that take the fact that the bible doesn't teach eternal suffering in a hell.

    I'm a Christian, and I understand that the bible DOESN'T teach eternal suffering in hell. The reason I ask about the Hades and Gehenna distinction is because it matters when your trying to interperate verses.

  5. #225
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    Re: What is most responsible for Christianity's failure in the West?

    christianty has no fault

    christians have
    "Sovereignty is not given, it is taken." ATATÜRK

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    Re: What is most responsible for Christianity's failure in the West?

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    Give me a verse, If you wan't to debate hell we can do that.
    What is there to debate? All I was saying is that hell is an important part of Christianity. You can say it isn't, but that certainly isn't a view that's worth of debate. It simply means you haven't read the books you claim to worship.

    My point is you have many theologians that take the fact that the bible doesn't teach eternal suffering in a hell.
    Their debate is about whether the suffering is eternal (because they like to ignore Matthew 25:46). There is no academic debate as to whether the concept of hell as punishment exists in the bible, that would be ridiculous.

    I'm a Christian, and I understand that the bible DOESN'T teach eternal suffering in hell. The reason I ask about the Hades and Gehenna distinction is because it matters when your trying to interperate verses.
    You're not a Christian, you just like to think you are. You don't follow the bible, ergo facto, you're just another spiritualist who puts the Christian label on himself. We didn't get to any quotes and you're already talking about how to "interpret" stuff. Just read it for what it is.
    If you hate capitalism so much, then just write everything in lower case. Problem solved.

  7. #227
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    Re: What is most responsible for Christianity's failure in the West?

    Quote Originally Posted by Medusa View Post
    christianty has no fault

    christians have
    Medusa...at first sight of your post I thought...bammmmm!...a hit out of the ballpark. Meaning...yeah, that's sounds right.

    But really, I have to say that all 3 of the so-called Western God Religions, and why it's called that, don't know. But all 3 (Christian, Jewish, and Muslim)...in my opinion...do have some faults and problems, which have caused some serious issues on this planet. I'm not really a fan of any of these. Well, to be totally honest I'm not a fan of religion per se. Now some of the philosophical disciplines like Taoism. Interesting to read. Dunno, girl. The whole world is crazy.

  8. #228
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    Re: What is most responsible for Christianity's failure in the West?

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    Medusa...at first sight of your post I thought...bammmmm!...a hit out of the ballpark. Meaning...yeah, that's sounds right.

    But really, I have to say that all 3 of the so-called Western God Religions, and why it's called that, don't know. But all 3 (Christian, Jewish, and Muslim)...in my opinion...do have some faults and problems, which have caused some serious issues on this planet. I'm not really a fan of any of these. Well, to be totally honest I'm not a fan of religion per se. Now some of the philosophical disciplines like Taoism. Interesting to read. Dunno, girl. The whole world is crazy.
    hi remov

    i believe if people were more honest and less selfish ,no religion would harm the humanity
    "Sovereignty is not given, it is taken." ATATÜRK

  9. #229
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    Re: What is most responsible for Christianity's failure in the West?

    Quote Originally Posted by Medusa View Post
    hi remov

    i believe if people were more honest and less selfish ,no religion would harm the humanity
    Hi Medusa... You're probably right about that....we can only continue to hope all get's their **** together.

  10. #230
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    Re: What is most responsible for Christianity's failure in the West?

    Quote Originally Posted by HumanBeing View Post
    What is there to debate? All I was saying is that hell is an important part of Christianity. You can say it isn't, but that certainly isn't a view that's worth of debate. It simply means you haven't read the books you claim to worship.
    I don't worship books, I worship God.
    If you're going to simply dismiss my claim, not citing scripture, not arguing from scripture, and not wanting any debate, that's fine, but it makes you look weak.

    Their debate is about whether the suffering is eternal (because they like to ignore Matthew 25:46). There is no academic debate as to whether the concept of hell as punishment exists in the bible, that would be ridiculous.
    Yes there is academic debate, what's the opposite of eternal punishment, eternal life, what's the punishment, according to Paul "the wages sin pays is death." Other times in the NT, it discusses eternal "cutting off" or eternal "destruction." So it's obvious, what that verse is talking about, not eternal hell, but eternal destruction.

    You're not a Christian, you just like to think you are. You don't follow the bible, ergo facto, you're just another spiritualist who puts the Christian label on himself. We didn't get to any quotes and you're already talking about how to "interpret" stuff. Just read it for what it is.
    No, I'm a Christian, and I do follow the bible, and it's a bit weak to make statemenets like that and not be willing to back them up.

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