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Thread: What is most responsible for Christianity's failure in the West?

  1. #171
    Educator HumanBeing's Avatar
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    Re: What is most responsible for Christianity's failure in the West?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman05 View Post
    No I'm not. Look at the post I am making and don't put words in my mouth. Or rather, words in my comment.
    I am simply explaining why you cannot attribute the events of the New testament to the god of the OT, and why you can't attribute the events of the OT to the god of the NT. Because they aren't the same.
    This whole thing doesn't make any sense, and your assertions are patently unchristian. You are saying that Christianity is a polytheistic religion. I've argued the same thing on occasion, and Christians generally take great offense to it. I'm confused by how you don't see the obvious contradiction in your argument.
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  2. #172
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    Re: What is most responsible for Christianity's failure in the West?

    Quote Originally Posted by captainawesome View Post
    The problems come when people want their view of the God myth forced onto others.
    Nobody is advocating fanaticism.

  3. #173
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    Re: What is most responsible for Christianity's failure in the West?

    Quote Originally Posted by HumanBeing View Post
    This whole thing doesn't make any sense, and your assertions are patently unchristian. You are saying that Christianity is a polytheistic religion. I've argued the same thing on occasion, and Christians generally take great offense to it. I'm confused by how you don't see the obvious contradiction in your argument.
    I've not argued that my Christianity is a polytheist religion. Where have I done that? I've just stated that you can't attribute the events of the OT to the god of the NT because the god of the NT is the God of Christianity... and he is not the same one as the god of the OT. And the events of the NT cannot be attributed to the god of the OT.

    I have provided sufficient examples and explanations to support my viewpoint, metaphores and all. Just because you can't see things that way doesn't mean you are right. It doesn't make me right either, but I have the advantage of bringing more to the debate where as you have simply recycled one silly, nonsensical point.

  4. #174
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    Re: What is most responsible for Christianity's failure in the West?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman05 View Post
    Nobody is advocating fanaticism.
    Some are some are not. Just depends on which God myth they believe is real.

    Never heard of a secular humanist firing a woman for being pregnant.

  5. #175
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    Re: What is most responsible for Christianity's failure in the West?

    Quote Originally Posted by Einzige View Post
    Where by "failure" I mean its gradual displacement from the center of the moral and intellectual life of they civilization.

    To define these options bit:

    [the conspiratorial view]: It holds that Christian belief would be as predominant today in the West as it was in 1913 if it were not for the conscious, deliberate machinations of a small group of secularizing elites promoting atheism and amorality.

    "secularization thesis". According to this theory, Christianity is doomed to deplacement, as are all religions eventually, by the gradual and wholly unconscious forces of mental and mechanical progress.

    the Nietzscheite option: Christianity has failed because it is inherently flawed. It can exist only among theoppressed, and as soon as a people become strong enough to shirk ofc a collective sense of inferiority it will abolish the correspondent notimon of individual existential guilt that informs Christianity.

    The Marxist solution. Christianity belongs at the historical latest to the age of feudalism; the rising capitalists of the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries sought initially to do away with it altogether, as a reminder of the hated age of the nobility, and retain it only as a matter of practicalg politica expedience.
    All four - in varying mixes depending on who you're talking to, what nation you're referring to specifically.

    The Secularization Thesis doesn't explain much, though - it just says it's doomed to be replaced. But by what - how - for what reasons...that's more critical to cover, which strongly ties into the other three.
    A screaming comes across the sky.
    It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.
    Pynchon - Gravity's Rainbow

  6. #176
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    Re: What is most responsible for Christianity's failure in the West?

    Quote Originally Posted by captainawesome View Post
    Some are some are not. Just depends on which God myth they believe is real.

    Never heard of a secular humanist firing a woman for being pregnant.
    You keep calling it God myth. I dislike that, gave you the benefit of the doubt that you mistyped or meant to say something else. I see now that it is a deliberate arrangement, so I shall decide to ignore you on the base that you're a ( . ) <--- my way of saying fill in the blanks. It's the equivalent of " ... " really.

    Also. communism. True, they didn't killed people for being pregnant. they did kill people for being priests.. .or being religious in any way. So yeah. Cheers.

  7. #177
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    Re: What is most responsible for Christianity's failure in the West?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman05 View Post
    I've not argued that my Christianity is a polytheist religion. Where have I done that?
    You specifically, categorically stated that the God of the Old Testament and the God of the New Testament are not the same God. That means they are different Gods, which means any religion that is founded on both the Old and the New Testaments would be polytheistic by definition.

    I've just stated that you can't attribute the events of the OT to the god of the NT because the god of the NT is the God of Christianity...
    So the God of Christianity didn't create man? You do know that stuff all happened in the Old Testament right? Who did create man? Jesus?

    and he is not the same one as the god of the OT. And the events of the NT cannot be attributed to the god of the OT.
    Of course they can. The whole point is that Jesus was the flesh and blood of the God who wrote the Old Testament. That's what your entire religion is based on.

    I have provided sufficient examples and explanations to support my viewpoint, metaphores and all. Just because you can't see things that way doesn't mean you are right. It doesn't make me right either, but I have the advantage of bringing more to the debate where as you have simply recycled one silly, nonsensical point.
    The fact that your argument contradicts itself makes you wrong by default. It makes you especially wrong when there is no mainstream Christian school of thought or teaching that states the Christian God isn't the God who wrote the Old Testament. It's simply not a Christian viewpoint.
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  8. #178
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    Re: What is most responsible for Christianity's failure in the West?

    Quote Originally Posted by HumanBeing View Post
    You specifically, categorically stated that the God of the Old Testament and the God of the New Testament are not the same God. That means they are different Gods, which means any religion that is founded on both the Old and the New Testaments would be polytheistic by definition.

    So the God of Christianity didn't create man? You do know that stuff all happened in the Old Testament right? Who did create man? Jesus?

    Of course they can. The whole point is that Jesus was the flesh and blood of the God who wrote the Old Testament. That's what your entire religion is based on.

    The fact that your argument contradicts itself makes you wrong by default. It makes you especially wrong when there is no mainstream Christian school of thought or teaching that states the Christian God isn't the God who wrote the Old Testament. It's simply not a Christian viewpoint.
    You can't attribute the events of the OT to the god of the NT and vice versa. What part of this simple statement can't you grasp?

    I tire of this entire debate which is turning out more like me behaving like a bloody parrot and you like a monkey.

    I shall cease repeating myself and since i have nothing more to add, I shall retire. I have made the points i decided to make, explained them in ample manner with plenty of examples. Your lack of a proper education in Christian philosophy cannot be mended over the internet.

    Bye.

  9. #179
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    Re: What is most responsible for Christianity's failure in the West?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman05 View Post
    You keep calling it God myth. I dislike that, gave you the benefit of the doubt that you mistyped or meant to say something else. I see now that it is a deliberate arrangement, so I shall decide to ignore you on the base that you're a ( . ) <--- my way of saying fill in the blanks. It's the equivalent of " ... " really.

    Also. communism. True, they didn't killed people for being pregnant. they did kill people for being priests.. .or being religious in any way. So yeah. Cheers.
    It is a God myth. There are so many God myths that we can't believe they are all true. The Jewish Christian Muslim and Hindu myths can't all be true.

  10. #180
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    Re: What is most responsible for Christianity's failure in the West?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman05 View Post
    You keep calling it God myth. I dislike that, gave you the benefit of the doubt that you mistyped or meant to say something else. I see now that it is a deliberate arrangement, so I shall decide to ignore you on the base that you're a ( . ) <--- my way of saying fill in the blanks. It's the equivalent of " ... " really.

    Also. communism. True, they didn't killed people for being pregnant. they did kill people for being priests.. .or being religious in any way. So yeah. Cheers.
    Well, he's using the term correctly. Plus calling something a myth doesn't necessarily mean it's not true:

    myth
    /miTH/
    Noun
    A traditional story, esp. one concerning the early history of a people or explaining some natural or social phenomenon, and typically...
    Such stories collectively.

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