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Thread: What is most responsible for Christianity's failure in the West?

  1. #151
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    Re: What is most responsible for Christianity's failure in the West?

    Quote Originally Posted by captainawesome View Post
    Where did the Jewish God go when the Christian God showed up.
    We can only ask ourselves "Where would we be if no one had ever bought into this stupid garbage ?".............................

  2. #152
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    Re: What is most responsible for Christianity's failure in the West?

    Quote Originally Posted by captainawesome View Post
    Where did the Jewish God go when the Christian God showed up.
    Nowhere. He's still in the OT and in judaism.

  3. #153
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    Re: What is most responsible for Christianity's failure in the West?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman05 View Post
    No, my line of reasoning is quite sound, I assure you.

    You cannot talk of a Christian God before the appearance of Christ. There was no Christian God before Christ. How hard is it to grasp that concept?
    It's not sound at all, nor is it in line with traditional Christian beliefs. It's a hard concept to grasp because by your reasoning, Christians don't believe in:

    - The Old Testament as being the word of God, as it you say it was written before your God existed. That means you either think it was written by a different God (which would make you a Polytheist, which Christians usually go to great lengths in claiming they aren't), or that it was simply the word of man.

    - Creationism. After all, the world was created long before Jesus was born, and according to you your God didn't exist at that point.

    -Actually, I'm not going to continue with this list. It's silly. The whole concept of Jesus being the son of God comes from the Old Testament. To claim that you don't believe in the father who existed before his son was born is just flat out unchristian. The Christian God existed before the birth of Jesus, and there is no mainstream religion that claims otherwise. He wrote a book, then he wrote a sequel. You can't worship the sequel and claim the original was written by someone else, it wasn't, that's the whole point of your religion.
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  4. #154
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    Re: What is most responsible for Christianity's failure in the West?

    What is most responsible for Christianity's failure in the West?

    RESPONSE:

    Christianity's failure is the failure of any of the Organized Religions of the World: These Religions preach nonsense when they insist on KNOWING the hereafter. There isn't anyone KNOWING the hereafter.

    Religions are regurgitated MYTHOLOGIES.....i.e., regurgitated bovinepoop.

    Personally, I don't know whether I am an Atheist, or not.

    IMO, IF there is a "god", that "god" is the sum total of the Laws of the Universe. Basically, that is the religion of Spinoza, Einstein, etc.

    I am proud to say that I came to this conclusion at the approx age of 9 without knowing Einstein's belief, nor the philosophers'.
    Last edited by HoongLoong; 07-10-13 at 04:54 AM.

  5. #155
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    Re: What is most responsible for Christianity's failure in the West?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman05 View Post
    Nowhere. He's still in the OT and in judaism.
    So not real?

  6. #156
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    Re: What is most responsible for Christianity's failure in the West?

    Quote Originally Posted by HumanBeing View Post
    Again, I still don't understand what you think I got wrong. The God who unleashed the plagues in the Old Testament is the same God that Jesus claimed to be. If you're saying it's not the same God, then that means you don't believe in the story of creation, adam and eve, and all the rest of it. Or is it only the plagues that was a "different" God, but all the stuff you happen to like was your God?

    Sorry dude, your line of reason is not only nonsensical from a non-religious perspective, but it's not even consistent with Christian beliefs. Jews and Christians believe in the same "base" God, it's whether Jesus was actually his son that they disagree on (and therefore whether we should care what Jesus said).
    No, all the stuff in the old testament, all of it, where God is involved, it's the Jewish God. Plain and simple. The Christian God, the god of Christianity, exists only in the events of the New Testament, not in the old testament.

    I cannot make it any clearer. I gave you 3 metaphorical examples to exemplify my point. The money one. The H2O, H2O2 one and a mathematical one. I cannot do anymore to get my point across and make you understand why the Christian God is not the same as the Jewish God. Why the new testament God is different from the Old Testament god and the only relationship that exists between them is an inheritance one. That's it. They are 2 different Gods.

    If you can't see that, then fine, lets agree to disagree.

    But do note that you kept repeating the same nonsensical line that Jesus said he is the son of the Old testament god, where as I came up with 3 pretty creative ways to explain to you why the fact that Christ exists is a crucial aspect in defining the Christian God as NOT being the same as the old testament god. I guess some people are just fixated like that. I am not to blame you received a poor and flawed education in Christianity and Christian theology.

    Quote Originally Posted by captainawesome View Post
    So not real?
    Take your atheism elsewhere. I won't be debating it here and now.

  7. #157
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    Re: What is most responsible for Christianity's failure in the West?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman05 View Post
    No, all the stuff in the old testament, all of it, where God is involved, it's the Jewish God. Plain and simple. The Christian God, the god of Christianity, exists only in the events of the New Testament, not in the old testament.

    I cannot make it any clearer. I gave you 3 metaphorical examples to exemplify my point. The money one. The H2O, H2O2 one and a mathematical one. I cannot do anymore to get my point across and make you understand why the Christian God is not the same as the Jewish God. Why the new testament God is different from the Old Testament god and the only relationship that exists between them is an inheritance one. That's it. They are 2 different Gods.

    If you can't see that, then fine, lets agree to disagree.

    But do note that you kept repeating the same nonsensical line that Jesus said he is the son of the Old testament god, where as I came up with 3 pretty creative ways to explain to you why the fact that Christ exists is a crucial aspect in defining the Christian God as NOT being the same as the old testament god. I guess some people are just fixated like that. I am not to blame you received a poor and flawed education in Christianity and Christian theology.
    You haven't come up with any creative ways to explain anything. There is nothing to "agree to disagree" about. You're saying Christians don't believe in the God of the Old Testament. That means they don't believe in the story of creation, Adam and Eve, the great flood, or the prophecies of Christ. It's simply nonsensical, and fundamentally unchristian.
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  8. #158
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    Re: What is most responsible for Christianity's failure in the West?

    Quote Originally Posted by HumanBeing View Post
    You haven't come up with any creative ways to explain anything. There is nothing to "agree to disagree" about. You're saying Christians don't believe in the God of the Old Testament. That means they don't believe in the story of creation, Adam and Eve, the great flood, or the prophecies of Christ. It's simply nonsensical.
    Omg. I never brought up the notion of "believe" in anything.
    The question is not "what do Christians believe in". The question we have attempted to answer is: Is the God of Christianity the same as the god of the Jewish religion? Is the God of the new testament the same as the god of the old testament? And the answer is no, the god of christianity is different than the god of judaism and the god of Christianity only came in existence with the new testament. he doesn't exist in the old testament. The god of judaism exists in the old testament.

    I never mentioned anythign about "believing" in one god or another. Just a matter of identity.

  9. #159
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    Re: What is most responsible for Christianity's failure in the West?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman05 View Post
    No, all the stuff in the old testament, all of it, where God is involved, it's the Jewish God. Plain and simple. The Christian God, the god of Christianity, exists only in the events of the New Testament, not in the old testament.

    I cannot make it any clearer. I gave you 3 metaphorical examples to exemplify my point. The money one. The H2O, H2O2 one and a mathematical one. I cannot do anymore to get my point across and make you understand why the Christian God is not the same as the Jewish God. Why the new testament God is different from the Old Testament god and the only relationship that exists between them is an inheritance one. That's it. They are 2 different Gods.

    If you can't see that, then fine, lets agree to disagree.

    But do note that you kept repeating the same nonsensical line that Jesus said he is the son of the Old testament god, where as I came up with 3 pretty creative ways to explain to you why the fact that Christ exists is a crucial aspect in defining the Christian God as NOT being the same as the old testament god. I guess some people are just fixated like that. I am not to blame you received a poor and flawed education in Christianity and Christian theology.



    Take your atheism elsewhere. I won't be debating it here and now.
    I asked a question.

    If the Christian God is not the Jewish God what happened to the Jewish God? Did it never exist or are there multiple Gods?

  10. #160
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    Re: What is most responsible for Christianity's failure in the West?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman05 View Post
    Omg. I never brought up the notion of "believe" in anything.
    The question is not "what do Christians believe in". The question we have attempted to answer is: Is the God of Christianity the same as the god of the Jewish religion? Is the God of the new testament the same as the god of the old testament? And the answer is no, the god of christianity is different than the god of judaism and the god of Christianity only came in existence with the new testament. he doesn't exist in the old testament. The god of judaism exists in the old testament.

    I never mentioned anythign about "believing" in one god or another. Just a matter of identity.
    What? This whole issue was raised when I said Christians believe in the God who unleashed the plagues on Egypt. You claimed was I was wrong and it was a "different God". Now you say you never brought up the notion of believing?

    This is unbelievable.......

    And again, if you don't believe in the God of the Old Testament, that means you don't believe in the story of creation, or the prophecies of Christ, among many other important fundamental Christian beliefs.
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