View Poll Results: At which age should a child be allowed to own a gun?

Voters
49. You may not vote on this poll
  • I don't think there should be age limits. It's the responsibility of the parents.

    11 22.45%
  • 0-4 years

    0 0%
  • 5-8 years

    1 2.04%
  • 9-12 years

    7 14.29%
  • 13-14 years

    3 6.12%
  • 15-16 years

    0 0%
  • 17-18 years

    14 28.57%
  • 21 years

    5 10.20%
  • Private gun ownership should not be allowed at all.

    0 0%
  • other (please explain)

    8 16.33%
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Thread: Guns and children

  1. #51
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    Re: Guns and children

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Hi German Guy. I'm one of those idiots that gives kids guns.


    To be precise, though, the question is far more complex than you've framed it.

    It is actually several questions...

    1. When is a child old enough to handle firearms in the presence of/under the tutelage of a responsible adult? (not on the own you see)
    2. When is a child old enough to be allowed access to firearms unsupervised on private property? (ie in the home, on the farm)
    3. When is a person old enough to buy or possess firearms unrestricted as an adult?
    4. When is a person old enough to carry a firearm in public places, as in concealed carry?

    I've never simply handed a child a gun and said "here, go play", or had them open a present on Christmas that was a .44 magnum and said "here's the bullets, keep it in your sock drawer..."


    No. That WOULD be irresponsible and insane.

    However, I taught my son (indeed, quite a number of children over the years), firearms safety and marksmanship beginning from age 4, under close and careful supervision.


    It is not unusual locally for children to learn to use firearms between the age of 6 and 10 under adult supervision. Many begin hunting between 6 and 12, under adult supervision.


    I've known many young fellows in that age range who were already pretty good marksmen, and sufficiently meticulous in their gunhandling that I did not feel they were in any way unsafe... under proper adult supervision.



    My son could recite the Three Rules of Safe Gunhandling in his sleep long before he ever needed to shave.


    Numbers 1 and 2 are the parent's responsibility to decide. There HAVE been children (of other people) I have been asked to teach basic safety and marksmanship to, and after talking with the child I declined and told the parent "he is not ready; let's talk again in a year or two". I will NOT teach them unless I see three things: 1. They will take the matter seriously and can be made to understand that guns are dangerous.... 2. They will OBEY my commands when we are shooting at targets... and 3. That they have been taught the fundamentals of moral and ethical behavior by their parents and understand that it is wrong to harm others absent necessity.



    Some children may be suitable to be taught (under careful supervision) at 4 or 5, some at 6 or 8.... some not until they are older, and some IMHO will be waiting for a cold day in Hades before I teach them squat.


    Depends. Driving a car is also dangerous. So is operating a skid-loader (Bobcat) which I taught my son to run at age 9, or cutting down trees with a chainsaw which he was allowed to do at 12.


    OTOH hand I've met 12yo's I would not trust with a pointy screwdriver. Depends.


    As a society, we allow purchase and unsupervised access to long arms at 18, and pistols at 21, by matter of law. As to being allowed access on private property (at home for instance).... that's a family matter and one to be determined with great care.


    I realize, GG, that this is a very alien thing to you.... I wonder if you can open up your mind well enough to see that we've been doing it in parts of America for literally centuries and in 99.99% of cases no tragedy or disaster occurs?

    The tragedies and disasters are rarities. Indeed, usually when a child accidentally shoots another child it is in a home where guns were kept but the child was NOT taught gun safety or allowed to shoot... it is well established that ignorance is a killer.
    Young children learn in a class room setting better than anything mom or dad can tell them. Thats why I was sent to a NRA safety class at 11 by my police officer father.

  2. #52
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    Re: Guns and children

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    I have a number of guns and I am, admittedly, not the most accurate with a handgun (I can sure dust the clay targets in trap though). I have no doubt your boy would embarrass me on the range which IMO goes to show that age is not nearly as important as training and experience.
    he's really fast but he doesn't always watch his front sight and he needs work on his speed reloads



  3. #53
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    Re: Guns and children

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman05 View Post
    As a European, Romania has probably the toughest gun laws in the world for a supposedly "free country". So totalitarian regimes are out.

    You cannot own a firearm if you are not a member of the law enforcement agencies or a member of Parliament.
    In order to get a non-lethal gun you need to jump through hoops and loops more so than a dolphin at waterworld. And once you do, you have gracefully subjected yourself to mandatory and random "cavity searches" from the police. Because if you own a non-lethal firearm, the police can drop by at any time, unannounced, and inspect your non-lethal gun. See if you keep in the proper storage according to the law ( gun and ammo separate under 2 separate keys in 2 separate safes).


    So coming from this background I believe that firearms should be legal. Lets be real, in the winter, a non-lethal gun will do jack against a guy who wants to hurt you and is wearing a heavy, thick coat unless you shoot him in the face. And if you shoot him in the face, you are liable to face criminal charges even if you were defending yourself.

    So. Firearms should be legal. But not "america" legal. The requirements for owning a legal firearm should be:

    - take a psychological test and pass it. The psychological test should be revisited every X years and/or after every major trauma (member of family died, car accident, etc). If you pass the psychological test and get a gun, and the next day you go out and shoot someone, both you and the psychologist who passed you are liable to face criminal charges.
    -Mandatory X number of training courses on how to use the gun. Clean, maintain and shoot.
    -You can only purchase a gun after you obtained a permission from the police, which requires you pass the psychological test (and maybe a theoretical knowledge test, like you do at driving school) and in order to get a permit legitimizing your purchase, you need to complete the training courses.

    So like when you take driving permit. You need to pass a theortical test and a driving test and all this after you completed a long training program. A car is a deadly weapon. A gun is a deadly weapon. They should both be held to the same standard, maybe a gun at a higher one.

    No drop-in inspections however. that's an invasion of your privacy. And you should be allowed to carry a gun in a concealed fashion at night if you have the permit on you. So not a concealed carry permit, the gun permit. But not during the day. At any other time, the gun must be either in your car/house/private property but during the day, not on your person.
    I think your proposed requirments are effectively a prohibition and it's kind of obvious that you don't know much about guns. If you did, you wouldn't view them as if they're the same as an unstable and explosive chemical compound. You'd need permission from the police? Please. I'm as pro law enforcement as anyone but I'll be damn if I'm going to ask permission from the police before I exercise any constitutional right. Any reason why you think someone should be allowed to defend themselves at night but not during the day? No offense, but I think we in America should decide what "America legal" should be.
    Last edited by X Factor; 07-04-13 at 01:18 AM.

  4. #54
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    Re: Guns and children

    The psychologist bit also surprised me. They should not be punished for the actions of another, especially when it is something as varied as gun violence (which won't just be committed by those who do not pass a test).
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: Guns and children

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    I think your proposed requirments are effectively a prohibition and it's kind of obvious that you don't know much about guns. If you did, you wouldn't view them as if they're the same as an unstable and explosive chemical compound. You'd need permission from the police? Please. I'm as pro law enforcement as anyone but I'll be damn if I'm going to ask permission from the police before I exercise any constitutional right. Any reason why you think someone should be allowed to defend themselves at night but not during the day? No offense, but I think we in America should decide what "America legal" should be.
    Fair enough, I am telling you how to apply your legislative rights.

    The gun culture in the USA exists and it is thriving, and I do not see that as a bad thing. I am not anti-gun rights at all. I just think that if there ever were an European pro-gun rights movement, in many European countries, it would be preferable if said movement would demand such things.

    Now some European countries have a less restrictive gun legislation, like Poland or Serbia or such.
    Some, have a very restrictive gun legislation like Romania, UK, Germany.

    If there ever would be a pan-European movement that would demand a proper legislative reform of gun laws to make sense, I see the following as making sense.
    -If you have a criminal record, you can't own a gun.
    -If you are under 18(or 21, either age is ok) you can't own a gun.
    And maybe 1-2 more things.

    And the steps for owning a gun would be:
    -Pass a psychological test at any qualified psychologist (and if you kill someone, both you and the psychologist are liable for criminal charges).
    -Take X number of gun courses (maintanence, shooting, stuff like that)
    -Go to the police, submit your file that has the fact that you passed a psychological test and took the courses, then pass a theoretical test at the police station that deals with your understanding of how/when/why a gun should be used as well as other things.
    -Get your permit to carry a gun and go buy a gun.

    These seem to be very logical steps. And with this legislation in place, I would see no reason why multiple kinds of guns should be made available. Handguns, small machineguns, a limited array of assault rifles, shotguns, crossbows (yeah, not a gun, but still).

  6. #56
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    Re: Guns and children

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
    Still not correct. There are no federal age lmits for ownership or possession. Some states have laws, but they differ widely.
    Actually, part of the federal laws during the Brady Bill era did set the federal handgun purchase age at 21, a dealer cannot even run a check in 49 of the 50 states for anyone under that age. I think Vermont may be the one exception, but that's going off of memory. I don't remember any federal long gun age but most states set that somewhere between 16 to 18.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

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  7. #57
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    Re: Guns and children

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrylek View Post
    Unless, of course, they are from Vermont: Arguably, the "leftiest" state in USA - and the most "pro-gun" at the same time.
    Hmmm, sounds like my kind of sate.

  8. #58
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    Re: Guns and children

    Quote Originally Posted by CRUE CAB View Post
    I think most states allow long guns at 18. 21 for a handgun.
    That said, my parents got me my first bolt action .22 at 12 and I still have it.
    But it was not given to me until I graduated a NRA safety course, even though my father was a police officer and WWII combat vet and was very familier with guns.
    Lessons in that class still are put to use every time I pick up a weapon.
    Well yeah, I have a 30-06 from my grandpa when I was around that age but, technically, didn't own it. Yeah, I know back home we have to have a "safety course" to get our hunting permit(s). It's a waste of a day, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    Sorry, 21 for a handgun and 18 for a rifle or shotgun.
    Thanks. Just wanted to clarify. No harm, no foul.
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  9. #59
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    Re: Guns and children

    Am I the only one who keeps thinking "That's a perfect lyric for a country song" every time they see this thread's title?
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