Should teenagers be given free condoms?

ksu_aviator said:

No, it is not. Statistically it is a near certainty that it will happen.

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Are you sure about that? 98% is a giant significant number statistics wise it's more guaranteed than most things. In words it expressed near impossible that's pretty damn good.

Most people manage to enjoy sex without getting married. I don't disagree that starting very young is more likely to have negative consequences, but having sex by age 16 is normal. The "psychological" impact is over-stated by the absexuals. It is usually caused by the sexist attitudes of others or a broken heart (getting dumped). The impact can be minimized with comprehensive sex ed that helps kids make informed choices and have reasonable expectations.

Anyone who doesn't think sex is fun is doing it wrong or has a physical or psychological problem that can be treated.

shlunka said:

Why should they be free? If you don't have the money to buy condoms, you don't have the money to raise a child.

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Maybe that's the point?

molten_dragon said:

If a fertility specialist told you that, then they didn't know what they were talking about. Or, more likely, you misunderstood what it was they were telling you. And your mathematics are off.

The average rate of pregnancy for couples who use condoms is 18 in 100 after one year. After 5 years of using nothing but condoms, that's a 63% chance of pregnancy (1-(.82^5)).
The average rate of pregnancy for couples who use birth control pills is 9 in 100 after one year. After 5 years of using nothing but birth control pills, that's a 37.5% chance of pregnancy (1-(.91^5)).
A couple using both condoms and birth control pills would have a 16 in 1000 (.18*.09 = .0162) chance of pregnancy after one year. After 5 years of using both methods, the chance of pregnancy is roughly 8%.

These are the average failure rates for these kinds of birth control, not the rates for people who actually use them properly every time they have sex. Those numbers would be considerably lower.

For comparison, the chance of pregnancy after a year of regular sex with no method of birth control is 85%. So by using either method of birth control, even imperfectly, you are considerably less likely to have a child after 5 years, than you would be to have a child after one if you used no birth control at all.

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No, you've over simplified the math. Statistics don't work that way. But I'm sure that the fertility specialist knew nothing of what he was talking about.

ksu_aviator said:

No, you've over simplified the math. Statistics don't work that way.

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That is in fact exactly how statistics work. If you don't believe me then why don't you show me the math then and prove me wrong.

ksu_aviator said:

But I'm sure that the fertility specialist knew nothing of what he was talking about.

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I think I'd rather trust statistics I can go look up than a random person who may or may not be a fertility specialist that another random person on the internet may or may not have talked to and may or may not have understood.

Your anecdotal evidence means nothing.

0bserver92 said:

Well then there is a chance a pregnancy might occur. That 2% doesn't necessarily get pregnant. Condoms are not 100% safe they just make 98x less likely there is a chance of pregnancy. Statistics wise that is a extremely almost impossible chance. That is 98x less likely your taxes may have to pay for a teenage pregnancy.

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If you're going to try to make an argument based on mathematics then please get the math right. You've done me a favor in already bolding where you screwed up. That is, condoms being 98% effective does not mean you are 98x less likely to get pregnant.

Let's work through this like a true statistician.

For a given pair of individuals at a particular time, there is a probability p of unprotected sex resulting in a pregnancy. Thus the probability of no pregnancy resulting is 1 - p. Defining the events
A = unprotected sex results in pregnancy
B = flawed condom,
our events are independent. Therefore, the probability P(AB) of sex with a condom resulting in pregnancy is equal to
P(A) * P(B) = 0.02p, assuming P(B) = 0.02,
and thus the probability of not getting pregnant when protection is used is 1 - 0.02p. Taking the ratio of avoiding pregnancy when protected versus unprotected,
(1 - 0.02p) / (1 - p)
clearly depends on the value p. Using the value p = 0.85 quoted in another post results in only a scale factor of about 6.5, nowhere near 98. Lower, and probably more realistic, values of p will give us even a lower ratio.

davidtaylorjr said:

Not true actually. If kids had to live with consequences, they might actually think twice.

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The problem is that they do NOT think about the consequences.

ChrisL said:

The problem is that they do NOT think about the consequences.

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The problem is that PARENTS do not MAKE them think about the consequences. For example, since I have a nice house, sometimes I drive through the crappy ghetto areas and say to my kids "this is where you might end up if you don't study hard." I point to my mother and niece losing out on freedom to enjoy their 20's by having kids as teenagers. Kids learn well by comparison, so show them the differences in expected results between good and bad decisions. Furthermore, parents need to make sure the kids get a taste of the rewards or consequences for good or bad decisions, respectively.

radcen said:

Do you want to stand on principle, or do you want tax money to pay for unplanned kids?

Option C does not exist.

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I want all the responsibility dumped on the perpetrators. This will help motivate the liberals to stop embracing pre marital sex.

Other:


No, they should have to pay for them like everyone else.

Dooble said:

I want all the responsibility dumped on the perpetrators. This will help motivate the liberals to stop embracing pre marital sex.

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You think premarital sex, even with condoms, a crime?

Should stoning be the punishment?

Hard Truth said:

You think premarital sex, even with condoms, a crime?

Should stoning be the punishment?

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Oh, hell no. We still live in a free country. If kids want to have sex with whomever they want, then so be it. It's one of the stupidest things they could do, in my opinion, but hey.

I do, however, want them to pay for their own condoms, or step up and take responsibility for the new bundle of joy. If they can't (or won't) do either, then bill them, take them to court, trash their credit, do whatever it takes to help them understand that it's not cool to be an irresponsible dirt bag.

Teenagers have been targeted by companies forever because of that supposedly disposable income. If they can watch Twilight they can buy their own Trojans.

Many of us on the pro-condom side are willing to accept vending machines with condoms in schools as a compromise. Free is not the important part, making them readily available is the goal.

Hard Truth said:

Many of us on the pro-condom side are willing to accept vending machines with condoms in schools as a compromise. Free is not the important part, making them readily available is the goal.

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I don't agree with this.

Not that I think "OH NOEZ DA CHILDREN CANT BE HAVIN' CONDOMZZZ!!!"

I just find it tacky to have this type of vending machine at a school......


If teens want condoms, they can go buy them at the same stores for the same prices as all other adults.

Mathematician said:

The problem is that PARENTS do not MAKE them think about the consequences. For example, since I have a nice house, sometimes I drive through the crappy ghetto areas and say to my kids "this is where you might end up if you don't study hard." I point to my mother and niece losing out on freedom to enjoy their 20's by having kids as teenagers. Kids learn well by comparison, so show them the differences in expected results between good and bad decisions. Furthermore, parents need to make sure the kids get a taste of the rewards or consequences for good or bad decisions, respectively.

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I agree with this. Unfortunately, not all parents are "good" parents or responsible parents, ESPECIALLY those who were teenager parents. Kind of perpetuates itself if you think about it.

Hard Truth said:

Many of us on the pro-condom side are willing to accept vending machines with condoms in schools as a compromise. Free is not the important part, making them readily available is the goal.

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I think condoms have enough proliferation without the schools.

Learn from example the places where protection is not given in schools their are a large amount of teenage pregnancies . Teenagers have a sense of nothing will happen to them mentality ( the majority ) , besides better safe then sorry . Supplying a teenager with a condom is much cheaper they having to pay them when they eventually begin to relie on social programs to raise the child since the teenager would not be financially ( or emotionally ) ready to support a child .

Meh, I'm still not sure how I feel about this issue. It's hard to say whether or not it would work at all since, like others have noted, they are already pretty easy to get.

Perhaps more education, starting at an earlier age or something would work better than just handing out free condoms. :shrug:

ChrisL said:

Meh, I'm still not sure how I feel about this issue. It's hard to say whether or not it would work at all since, like others have noted, they are already pretty easy to get.

Perhaps more education, starting at an earlier age or something would work better than just handing out free condoms. :shrug:

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The condoms are there..... they have been told.... and told..... and told.... and told..... and educated... and educated.... and educated.... and educated.....

Why must adults assume teenagers are morons who have no clue of the consequences?

They do, and yet as teenagers are they risk consequences anyways like they always have and always will.

Caine said:

The condoms are there..... they have been told.... and told..... and told.... and told..... and educated... and educated.... and educated.... and educated.....

Why must adults assume teenagers are morons who have no clue of the consequences?

They do, and yet as teenagers are they risk consequences anyways like they always have and always will.

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I remember sex ed in my health class, and I don't really remember them focusing on using condoms too much. Also, the United States has one of the highest teen pregnancy rates in the world among developed countries.

The teenage birth rate in the United States is the highest in the developed world, and the teenage abortion rate is also high.[2] The U.S. teenage pregnancy rate was at a high in the 1950s and has decreased since then, although there has been an increase in births out of wedlock.[15] The teenage pregnancy rate decreased significantly in the 1990s; this decline manifested across all racial groups, although teenagers of African-American and Hispanic descent retain a higher rate, in comparison to that of European-Americans and Asian-Americans. The Guttmacher Institute attributed about 25% of the decline to abstinence and 75% to the effective use of contraceptives.[16] While in 2006 the U.S. teen birth rate rose for the first time in fourteen years,[17] it reached a historic low in 2010: 34.3 births per 1,000 women aged 15–19.[18]

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ChrisL said:

I remember sex ed in my health class, and I don't really remember them focusing on using condoms too much. Also, the United States has one of the highest teen pregnancy rates in the world among developed countries.

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Well I do... and I may or may not be younger than you, don't assume what was happening then is happening now.
I don't think any more sex education than what I received is necessary. And they told everything, including use of condoms, and I lived in a rural farming town (very religious people there).

As far as the teen pregnancy rates....... like I said..... they have been educated.

Its a culture thing.......



I really wish Americans would stop with the whole "OMFG WE ARE BADZ IN THIS STAT... WE MUST SPEND MONEY TO DO ..... SOMETHING!!!"

I was told as well, even if abstinence education was on the upsurge.

Caine said:

Well I do... and I may or may not be younger than you, don't assume what was happening then is happening now.
I don't think any more sex education than what I received is necessary. And they told everything, including use of condoms, and I lived in a rural farming town (very religious people there).

As far as the teen pregnancy rates....... like I said..... they have been educated.

Its a culture thing.......



I really wish Americans would stop with the whole "OMFG WE ARE BADZ IN THIS STAT... WE MUST SPEND MONEY TO DO ..... SOMETHING!!!"

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Well, I'm in my mid 30s. I remember them skimming the surface of protection. Maybe they should talk about that aspect more.

In case anyone's opinion is influenced by the facts:

* A comparison of public high schools in New York City and Chicago found positive effects of condom availability programs. With the same sexual activity among senior high students in both cities (NYC, 59.7 percent; Chicago, 60.1 percent), sexually active students in New York, where there is a condom availability program, were more likely to report using a condom at last intercourse than were those in Chicago, where condoms are not available in school (60.8 to 55.5 percent).1
* In a two-year study of Philadelphia health resource centers (HRCs) that make condoms available, the percent of students using condoms at last intercourse increased from 52 to 58 percent. In schools with high HRC use, the number of students ever having intercourse dropped from 75 to 66 percent, while condom use at last intercourse rose from 37 to 50 percent.2
* By comparison, in schools reporting lower HRC use, the percentage of sexually active teens decreased from 61 to 56 percent, while condom use a last intercourse rose from 57 to 61 percent. Non-program schools showed an increase in sexual activity among teens, while condom use increased from 62 to 65 percent.2

Condom Availability Programs Do Not Promote Sexual Activity.

* A study of New York City's school condom availability program found a significant increase in condom use among sexually active students but no increase in sexual activity.1
* A World Health Organization review of studies on sexuality education found that access to counseling and contraceptive services did not encourage earlier or increased sexual activity.3
* In Europe and Canada where comprehensive sexuality education and convenient, confidential access to condoms are more common, the rates of adolescent sexual intercourse are no higher than in the United States.4

References

1. Guttmacher S, Lieberman L, Ward D, et al. Condom availability in New York City public high schools: relationships to condom use and sexual behavior. Am J Public Health 1997; 87:1427- 1433.
2. Furstenberg FF, Geitz LM, Teitler JO, et al. Does condom availability make a difference? An evaluation of Philadelphia's health resource centers. Fam Plann Perspect 1997; 29:123-127.
3. Baldo M, Aggleton P, Slutkin G. Poster presentation to the Ninth International Conference on AIDS, Berlin, 6-10 June 1993. Geneva, Switzerland: World Health Organization, 1993.
4. American Academy of Pediatrics, Committee on Adolescence. Condom availability for youth. Pediatrics 1995; 95:281-285.

School Condom Availability