View Poll Results: Is Snowden a patriot?

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  • Absolutley! The people have the right to know!

    53 63.86%
  • No

    20 24.10%
  • NO WAY!

    10 12.05%
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Thread: Is Snowden a patriot?

  1. #81
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    Re: Is Snowden a patriot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Razor View Post
    Are you familiar with "the public trust"? What should happen to those that break the trust given politicians by consent of the people?
    We've all had a time when daddy had to give you the reason "because I said so", e.g. when you were a little boy asking why you couldn't watch the Playboy channel. Do you have any idea what percentage of the public has no clue about infosec and national security?
    "With me everything turns into mathematics."
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    Re: Is Snowden a patriot?

    Why the hell do people keep labeling anyone who comes forward and does the right thing a "hero" or a "patriot". He's neither. He's a decent human being. Maybe the NSA ought to give that a shot.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: Is Snowden a patriot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Surtr View Post
    Daniel Ellsberg wasn't a member of the Uniformed Services, nor was he ever a member of the CIA.
    but did he not disclose classified information
    and share with us how the court ruled, whether his disclosures should be found lawful or not
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  4. #84
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    Re: Is Snowden a patriot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mathematician View Post
    We've all had a time when daddy had to give you the reason "because I said so", e.g. when you were a little boy asking why you couldn't watch the Playboy channel. Do you have any idea what percentage of the public has no clue about infosec and national security?
    We are NOT children. And I don't care about your narrow personal knowledge of infosec. Gov't abuses go FAR beyond that. It's a broad question which you failed to answer. As for me, even if I wasn't in the know (and I'm in the know) of national secutiry, all I would need to know is the history of every gov't since civ began and the wisdom of our founders based upon that knowledge.

    Same question as before.

  5. #85
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    Re: Is Snowden a patriot?

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    but did he not disclose classified information
    and share with us how the court ruled, whether his disclosures should be found lawful or not
    Was he under UCMJ, or the very strict nondisclosure policies of the NSA?
    I love the NSA. It's like having a secret fan-base you will never see, but they're there, watching everything you write and it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that I may be some person's only form of unconstitutional entertainment one night.

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    Re: Is Snowden a patriot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Surtr View Post
    Was he under UCMJ, or the very strict nondisclosure policies of the NSA?
    then your position is that if he had been bound by such provisions he would have been found other than a legal whistleblower?
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    Re: Is Snowden a patriot?

    The word patriot is a word with no meaning in todays society like HERO. I have no clue whether he is or not but he did what was right and now he is being hounded for it so much for freedom of speech.

    To me a Patriot is a person who does special services (and no that does not exclusively mean military) for their country for its benefit or continuation or betterment beyond what should be expected of a person. Today all you have to do is salute the flag and your a patriot. No your a citizen.
    "Those who do not learn from history and condemned to relive it".

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    Re: Is Snowden a patriot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mathematician View Post
    You're right, that is the problem with most people. However, I teach classified applied math to our military and know how infosec works.

    When you take a position requiring trust and break that trust, the consequences should be proportional to the degree of trust that was given. For example, cops breaking the law should receive harsher sentences than civilians. Moreover, an intentional breach is the worst kind. This wasn't like a slip of the tongue. In particular, releasing secrets for enemies is about as unpatriotic as it gets. Lastly, I find life sentences to prison pointless, so just kill him and get it over with.
    You heard it here. The American people are the enemy.

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  9. #89
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    Re: Is Snowden a patriot?

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    then your position is that if he had been bound by such provisions he would have been found other than a legal whistleblower?
    Obviously. If he signed a NDA, and then disclosed agency secrets. A whistleblower requires the agency to be committing wrong-doing. The NSA surveillance is absolutely and completely legal. Therefore, he is not a whistleblower, and he should be in jail in the US, awaiting his trial. Whether the NSA's program should be legal is an entirely different argument, but that discussion is irrelevant to our discussion here.

    Furthermore, for the OP, the definition of a patriot is a person who vigorously supports their country and is prepared to defend it against enemies or detractors. Snowden's actions are hostile to the national security interests of the USA. They were hostile to the government's policies, he has taken asylum in a country hostile to US foreign policy, he has not support the US against detractors and enemies, and he is a detractor.

    By this definition, he is very clearly not a patriot.
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    Re: Is Snowden a patriot?

    Quote Originally Posted by John Liberty View Post
    Is Snowden a patriot for leaking that the NSA was tapping thousands of phone calls without warrants?
    I'm not an expert on American constitutional law, but I'm pretty sure that the US Constitution guarantees the civil right on privacy of correspondence, like all other constitutions of other civilized nations too.

    So the US government violated the Constitution. Snowden is a true patriot for making that known.

    Because a true patriot places the Constitution and the people's rights above the current government, and above a party and above a President. That's patriotism.

    It doesn't matter what contract Snowden had signed. If that contract was against the Constitution, it was as illegal as it gets in the first place.
    "Not learning from mistakes is worse than committing mistakes. When you don't allow yourself to make mistakes, it is hard to be tolerant of others and it does not allow even God to be merciful."

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