View Poll Results: Is Snowden a patriot?

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  • Absolutley! The people have the right to know!

    53 63.86%
  • No

    20 24.10%
  • NO WAY!

    10 12.05%
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Thread: Is Snowden a patriot?

  1. #41
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    Re: Is Snowden a patriot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    He's not a whistleblower; he's ego-driven scum. The operations he exposed were approved, conducted and overseen by our democratically elected government. In other words, by us. He betrayed us all.
    having worked within that democratically elected federal system i was exposed to the wrongdoing the government can and will dole out if its actions are not exposed to the light of day
    based on the information known to us - and the government is trying to suppress that - this fellow is a whistleblowing patriot
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

  2. #42
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    Re: Is Snowden a patriot?

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    having worked within that democratically elected federal system i was exposed to the wrongdoing the government can and will dole out if its actions are not exposed to the light of day
    based on the information known to us - and the government is trying to suppress that - this fellow is a whistleblowing patriot
    I too spent nearly 34 years in that government. Snowden is dirt.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  3. #43
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    Re: Is Snowden a patriot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mathematician View Post
    If you think nothing has been offered then you didn't watch Gen. Alexander testify. Come on, Ikari. I expect you to be intelligent enough to realize if the NSA broadcast things prevented then the enemies can learn from each other's mistakes.
    Well I guess we'll have to evolve then. I did watch and read as much as I could, and you and I both know that they offered no proof what so ever. All they had was hearsay. "We prevented 50 attacks". Great. Did you need the full of this at best suspicious use of force to do so? We're more at risk!? Just another thing they say. What is the change in my probability of being dead on any given day. Terrorists are changing their methods!? Really? It was standard practice for terrorists to talk about detailed plans over unsecured cell phones? If so, they're retarded and I'm not concerned. If they can't think that far ahead, they will not be able to outwit us and we'll remain ahead. In many cases I'll take the PROBABILITY of terrorist attack over the GUARANTEE of government force. And that's what it comes down to. Government force is assured, we'll all have to deal with it. Terrorist attacks are probabilities, they may happen and given enough time they will happen. So you got to beat the probability before I consider the guarantee a worthy trade off.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  4. #44
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    Re: Is Snowden a patriot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mathematician View Post
    Don't forget the key of intention when judging an action. People need to realize that what's going on is not only legal, but the purpose is to protect the country. Those claiming Snowden is a patriot act like the government's intentions are negative towards citizens.
    They are legal. They are also secret. It is legal now to kill an American citizen without any evidence being presented.

    Maybe Obama thinks he is doing what is best for you but a) this policy has created far more enemies than friends and secondly you have allowed your government to get powers that go against your constitution. Such a government can do pretty much anything it wants to you, in what it believes is in America's secret interests.

    You have 3 different organisations who can decide to kill someone and that includes American citizens and all without needing to provide any evidence of wrongdoing.

    You are all under surveillance.

    waken up and see the implications.
    George Monboit "Neoliberalism is inherently incompatible with democracy, as people will always rebel against the austerity and fiscal tyranny it prescribes. Something has to give, and it must be the people. This is the true road to serfdom: disinventing democracy on behalf of the elite."

  5. #45
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    Re: Is Snowden a patriot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Well I guess we'll have to evolve then. I did watch and read as much as I could, and you and I both know that they offered no proof what so ever. All they had was hearsay. "We prevented 50 attacks". Great. Did you need the full of this at best suspicious use of force to do so? We're more at risk!? Just another thing they say. What is the change in my probability of being dead on any given day. Terrorists are changing their methods!? Really? It was standard practice for terrorists to talk about detailed plans over unsecured cell phones? If so, they're retarded and I'm not concerned. If they can't think that far ahead, they will not be able to outwit us and we'll remain ahead. In many cases I'll take the PROBABILITY of terrorist attack over the GUARANTEE of government force. And that's what it comes down to. Government force is assured, we'll all have to deal with it. Terrorist attacks are probabilities, they may happen and given enough time they will happen. So you got to beat the probability before I consider the guarantee a worthy trade off.
    Very fortunately (and I mean this in the very best way) your view won't matter. It is nearly impossible to discuss this topic in the open.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  6. #46
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    Re: Is Snowden a patriot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Very fortunately (and I mean this in the very best way) your view won't matter. It is nearly impossible to discuss this topic in the open.
    I don't think that insistance that the government be constrained by the Constitution and that it obey and respect the rights and liberties of the individual as being unfortunate in the least. Perchance that is where you and I differ. But facts are as they are. The government is engaged in unrestricted monitoring and spying on the People and there are those of us which recognize the danger of unrestrained government, and others who cheer for their overlords.

    Snowden is a hero and demonstrates the government's ill will against our continued liberty.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  7. #47
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    Re: Is Snowden a patriot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I don't think that insistance that the government be constrained by the Constitution and that it obey and respect the rights and liberties of the individual as being unfortunate in the least. Perchance that is where you and I differ. But facts are as they are. The government is engaged in unrestricted monitoring and spying on the People and there are those of us which recognize the danger of unrestrained government, and others who cheer for their overlords.

    Snowden is a hero and demonstrates the government's ill will against our continued liberty.
    The operations exposed by Snowden were/are both constitutional and lawful. They were undertaken legally by duly elected authorities, conducted in a legal manner and overseen by our elected representatives. The operations were democracy in action. Snowden represents outlawry.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  8. #48
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    Re: Is Snowden a patriot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    The operations exposed by Snowden were/are both constitutional and lawful. They were undertaken legally by duly elected authorities, conducted in a legal manner and overseen by our elected representatives. The operations were democracy in action. Snowden represents outlawry.
    They are only lawful because the government defined it as such. They have given no actual proof to the constitutionality of their aggressive force against our rights. Snowden represents the necessary checks on government force and the necessity of the People to be educated towards the concerns of the government and its actions it takes against us.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  9. #49
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    Re: Is Snowden a patriot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    They are only lawful because the government defined it as such. They have given no actual proof to the constitutionality of their aggressive force against our rights. Snowden represents the necessary checks on government force and the necessity of the People to be educated towards the concerns of the government and its actions it takes against us.

    they **** on our Constitutional rights in secret
    only we were never supposed to learn about it
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

  10. #50
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    Re: Is Snowden a patriot?

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    they **** on our Constitutional rights in secret
    only we were never supposed to learn about it
    And that is the heart of the matter. That's what it all comes down to, that's why all the spin is as it is. The deflection away from what government was doing and the unsupported claims that the program had done well and that it was "legal". We were never to know of it. And so long as we remain ignorant, we remain docile and we remain controllable. All spin has to come out against the information being there in the first place, because it is through control of information and knowledge that we ourselves are controlled. A little leak like this, essentially confirmation of all that we already knew, has created such disturbance. Imagine what would happen if we figured out all the stuff they were really doing.

    But pay no mind to the reflection in the mirror. It's "legal" and it's good that the government watches us so much. The big bad fear from the dark will get us if they don't, and we'll all surely die if we question. Obey....obey.....obey......obey!
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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