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Is Snowden a patriot?

Is Snowden a patriot?

  • Absolutley! The people have the right to know!

    Votes: 37 56.1%
  • No

    Votes: 19 28.8%
  • NO WAY!

    Votes: 10 15.2%

  • Total voters
    66
Spying must be well-defined. Witnessing the source and destination of communication is legal.

As defined by the government. But they weren't given power to do any of this without warrant, and doing so illegally and without warrant is a break in the trust placed in the government. Which should be heavily punished, yes?
 
Standard CIA response. The trees are blocking your vision of the forest. Check somehow to see if you have actually been programmed/propagandized by an overdose type exposure to opinions contrary to common sense and patriotism. Patriotic to what is a good place to start.

The programs he exposed were/are both lawful and properly overseen by Congress. They are also matched by less restrained analogous efforts among our adversaries. Snowden has injured our country, apparently to satisfy the demands of his own ego. He's dirt.:cool:
 
The programs he exposed were/are both lawful and properly overseen by Congress. They are also matched by less restrained analogous efforts among our adversaries. Snowden has injured our country, apparently to satisfy the demands of his own ego. He's dirt.:cool:

Don't forget the key of intention when judging an action. People need to realize that what's going on is not only legal, but the purpose is to protect the country. Those claiming Snowden is a patriot act like the government's intentions are negative towards citizens.
 
Don't forget the key of intention when judging an action. People need to realize that what's going on is not only legal, but the purpose is to protect the country. Those claiming Snowden is a patriot act like the government's intentions are negative towards citizens.

So they claim. Of course the government will never define anything it does as illegal. They claim protection, but no true evidence has ever been offered. Secret courts, domestic spying without warrant, continued aggregation of data, etc. Not really a comforting thought. But I suppose Statists will always defend the State over the People.
 
So they claim. Of course the government will never define anything it does as illegal. They claim protection, but no true evidence has ever been offered. Secret courts, domestic spying without warrant, continued aggregation of data, etc. Not really a comforting thought. But I suppose Statists will always defend the State over the People.

If you think nothing has been offered then you didn't watch Gen. Alexander testify. Come on, Ikari. I expect you to be intelligent enough to realize if the NSA broadcast things prevented then the enemies can learn from each other's mistakes.
 
Snowden is dirt.

The rights of every individual in this country are being illegally violated by what is essentially becoming a rogue government but snowden is dirt.

Snowden, the one you call dirt, puts his life on the line so that you and I and all US citizens might become aware that we are being spied on by our own government for the purpose of future targeting. Snowden gains nothing and loses A LOT so that we can learn that our government is still secretly adhering to the blueprint for tyranny.

Your priorities are not consistent with those of what a US citizen in a free america should be. There are other countries you can defect to where the government plots against and lies to its citizenry. You'd be happier there, apparently, and we would have one less anti-constitutional pseudo-citizen supporting a police state in america and hampering our efforts to stop it.
 
The rights of every individual in this country are being illegally violated by what is essentially becoming a rogue government but snowden is dirt.

Snowden, the one you call dirt, puts his life on the line so that you and I and all US citizens might become aware that we are being spied on by our own government for the purpose of future targeting. Snowden gains nothing and loses A LOT so that we can learn that our government is still secretly adhering to the blueprint for tyranny.

Your priorities are not consistent with those of what a US citizen in a free america should be. There are other countries you can defect to where the government plots against and lies to its citizenry. You'd be happier there, apparently, and we would have one less anti-constitutional pseudo-citizen supporting a police state in america and hampering our efforts to stop it.

The operations Snowden exposed were legally undertaken by our elected government. They were constitutionally overseen by our elected representatives in Congress. If our government were not doing what Snowden claims then they would be derelict in their duty.:cool:
 
The operations Snowden exposed were legally undertaken by our elected government. They were constitutionally overseen by our elected representatives in Congress. If our government were not doing what Snowden claims then they would be derelict in their duty.:cool:

yes, our government should be able to spy on its citizens without their knowledge [/sarcasm]
thought it was we the people
and not in a subservient state to the government
maybe civics lessons rather than fireworks should be heard on the fourth of july
 
yes, our government should be able to spy on its citizens without their knowledge [/sarcasm]
thought it was we the people
and not in a subservient state to the government
maybe civics lessons rather than fireworks should be heard on the fourth of july

We the people approved and oversaw those operations under the terms of our Constitution.:cool:
 
We the people approved and oversaw those operations under the terms of our Constitution.:cool:

only we the people could not be informed of it

how is that citizen based instead of state based
 
only we the people could not be informed of it

how is that citizen based instead of state based

There are many things that government (at all levels) does that are confidential for good reasons. Through our constitutional and legal processes we the people authorize our elected representatives to act for us in those cases and keep it confidential. :cool:
 
Rather then using abusive language against Snowden, why don't you elaborate on why you think he deserves to die? This is the problem with most people, they would rather soak in whatever the media tells them and use logical fallacies to make their point rather then intelligently explain their position.

Snowden, by "self-deporting" has taken care of the problem.
IMO, he loves himself above his nation, he must never be allowed to return.
He had no business doing what he did. its matters not whether or not the NSA was right or wrong.
 
There are many things that government (at all levels) does that are confidential for good reasons. Through our constitutional and legal processes we the people authorize our elected representatives to act for us in those cases and keep it confidential. :cool:

but it is doing these things against its own citizens and against their best interests
and is uninclined to reveal that it is doing so
perfect environment for the need of a whistleblower to step forward
 
but it is doing these things against its own citizens and against their best interests
and is uninclined to reveal that it is doing so
perfect environment for the need of a whistleblower to step forward

He's not a whistleblower; he's ego-driven scum. The operations he exposed were approved, conducted and overseen by our democratically elected government. In other words, by us. He betrayed us all.:eek:
 
Snowden, by "self-deporting" has taken care of the problem.
IMO, he loves himself above his nation, he must never be allowed to return.
He had no business doing what he did. its matters not whether or not the NSA was right or wrong.

he loves his country so much he sacrificed a good life to expose governmental wrongdoing
his motivation was not in any way self serving
show us that it was and i will re-evaluate my position
 
He's not a whistleblower; he's ego-driven scum. The operations he exposed were approved, conducted and overseen by our democratically elected government. In other words, by us. He betrayed us all.:eek:

having worked within that democratically elected federal system i was exposed to the wrongdoing the government can and will dole out if its actions are not exposed to the light of day
based on the information known to us - and the government is trying to suppress that - this fellow is a whistleblowing patriot
 
having worked within that democratically elected federal system i was exposed to the wrongdoing the government can and will dole out if its actions are not exposed to the light of day
based on the information known to us - and the government is trying to suppress that - this fellow is a whistleblowing patriot

I too spent nearly 34 years in that government. Snowden is dirt.:cool:
 
If you think nothing has been offered then you didn't watch Gen. Alexander testify. Come on, Ikari. I expect you to be intelligent enough to realize if the NSA broadcast things prevented then the enemies can learn from each other's mistakes.

Well I guess we'll have to evolve then. I did watch and read as much as I could, and you and I both know that they offered no proof what so ever. All they had was hearsay. "We prevented 50 attacks". Great. Did you need the full of this at best suspicious use of force to do so? We're more at risk!? Just another thing they say. What is the change in my probability of being dead on any given day. Terrorists are changing their methods!? Really? It was standard practice for terrorists to talk about detailed plans over unsecured cell phones? If so, they're retarded and I'm not concerned. If they can't think that far ahead, they will not be able to outwit us and we'll remain ahead. In many cases I'll take the PROBABILITY of terrorist attack over the GUARANTEE of government force. And that's what it comes down to. Government force is assured, we'll all have to deal with it. Terrorist attacks are probabilities, they may happen and given enough time they will happen. So you got to beat the probability before I consider the guarantee a worthy trade off.
 
Don't forget the key of intention when judging an action. People need to realize that what's going on is not only legal, but the purpose is to protect the country. Those claiming Snowden is a patriot act like the government's intentions are negative towards citizens.

They are legal. They are also secret. It is legal now to kill an American citizen without any evidence being presented.

Maybe Obama thinks he is doing what is best for you but a) this policy has created far more enemies than friends and secondly you have allowed your government to get powers that go against your constitution. Such a government can do pretty much anything it wants to you, in what it believes is in America's secret interests.

You have 3 different organisations who can decide to kill someone and that includes American citizens and all without needing to provide any evidence of wrongdoing.

You are all under surveillance.

waken up and see the implications.
 
Well I guess we'll have to evolve then. I did watch and read as much as I could, and you and I both know that they offered no proof what so ever. All they had was hearsay. "We prevented 50 attacks". Great. Did you need the full of this at best suspicious use of force to do so? We're more at risk!? Just another thing they say. What is the change in my probability of being dead on any given day. Terrorists are changing their methods!? Really? It was standard practice for terrorists to talk about detailed plans over unsecured cell phones? If so, they're retarded and I'm not concerned. If they can't think that far ahead, they will not be able to outwit us and we'll remain ahead. In many cases I'll take the PROBABILITY of terrorist attack over the GUARANTEE of government force. And that's what it comes down to. Government force is assured, we'll all have to deal with it. Terrorist attacks are probabilities, they may happen and given enough time they will happen. So you got to beat the probability before I consider the guarantee a worthy trade off.

Very fortunately (and I mean this in the very best way) your view won't matter. It is nearly impossible to discuss this topic in the open.:cool:
 
Very fortunately (and I mean this in the very best way) your view won't matter. It is nearly impossible to discuss this topic in the open.:cool:

I don't think that insistance that the government be constrained by the Constitution and that it obey and respect the rights and liberties of the individual as being unfortunate in the least. Perchance that is where you and I differ. But facts are as they are. The government is engaged in unrestricted monitoring and spying on the People and there are those of us which recognize the danger of unrestrained government, and others who cheer for their overlords.

Snowden is a hero and demonstrates the government's ill will against our continued liberty.
 
I don't think that insistance that the government be constrained by the Constitution and that it obey and respect the rights and liberties of the individual as being unfortunate in the least. Perchance that is where you and I differ. But facts are as they are. The government is engaged in unrestricted monitoring and spying on the People and there are those of us which recognize the danger of unrestrained government, and others who cheer for their overlords.

Snowden is a hero and demonstrates the government's ill will against our continued liberty.

The operations exposed by Snowden were/are both constitutional and lawful. They were undertaken legally by duly elected authorities, conducted in a legal manner and overseen by our elected representatives. The operations were democracy in action. Snowden represents outlawry.:peace
 
The operations exposed by Snowden were/are both constitutional and lawful. They were undertaken legally by duly elected authorities, conducted in a legal manner and overseen by our elected representatives. The operations were democracy in action. Snowden represents outlawry.:peace

They are only lawful because the government defined it as such. They have given no actual proof to the constitutionality of their aggressive force against our rights. Snowden represents the necessary checks on government force and the necessity of the People to be educated towards the concerns of the government and its actions it takes against us.
 
They are only lawful because the government defined it as such. They have given no actual proof to the constitutionality of their aggressive force against our rights. Snowden represents the necessary checks on government force and the necessity of the People to be educated towards the concerns of the government and its actions it takes against us.


they **** on our Constitutional rights in secret
only we were never supposed to learn about it
 
they **** on our Constitutional rights in secret
only we were never supposed to learn about it

And that is the heart of the matter. That's what it all comes down to, that's why all the spin is as it is. The deflection away from what government was doing and the unsupported claims that the program had done well and that it was "legal". We were never to know of it. And so long as we remain ignorant, we remain docile and we remain controllable. All spin has to come out against the information being there in the first place, because it is through control of information and knowledge that we ourselves are controlled. A little leak like this, essentially confirmation of all that we already knew, has created such disturbance. Imagine what would happen if we figured out all the stuff they were really doing.

But pay no mind to the reflection in the mirror. It's "legal" and it's good that the government watches us so much. The big bad fear from the dark will get us if they don't, and we'll all surely die if we question. Obey....obey.....obey......obey!
 
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