View Poll Results: Should the choosing of Senators be taken from the people and given back to the states

Voters
75. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    31 41.33%
  • No

    41 54.67%
  • Not sure

    3 4.00%
Page 3 of 19 FirstFirst 1234513 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 186

Thread: Should the choosing of Senators be taken from the people and given back to the states

  1. #21
    Angry Former GOP Voter
    Fiddytree's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:49 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    25,645

    Re: Should the choosing of Senators be taken from the people and given back to the st

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    Could the reason that the founders hated democracy was because it meant sharing power with the common people? It kind of gives the impression that the founding fathers were elitists.
    Many were elitists, but that's not a bad thing.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

  2. #22
    Phonetic Mnemonic
    radcen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Look to your right... I'm that guy.
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:38 PM
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    33,397

    Re: Should the choosing of Senators be taken from the people and given back to the st

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    because it puts power back into the hands of state legislatures who are elected by the people.

    with that state power, the federal government cannot mandate or create laws, which take away state powers in the first place, this keeps the federal government limited as the founders wanted.

    this is why the u.s. constitution was created as a mixed constitution, to divide power between the people and the states....the house is for the people, and the senate is for the states, this way no one group has all the power and cannot become tyrannical and violate the constitution.
    Good point in paragraph 2.

    And considering that the people have pretty much wholly abdicated their responsibility... i.e.: 10% Congressional approval rating and 90% re-election rate... Congress knows we won't do anything, so they have indeed become tyrannical.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

  3. #23
    Sage
    Unitedwestand13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Sunnyvale California
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:16 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    14,909

    Re: Should the choosing of Senators be taken from the people and given back to the st

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    because it puts power back into the hands of state legislatures who are elected by the people.

    with that state power, the federal government cannot mandate or create laws, which take away state powers in the first place, this keeps the federal government limited as the founders wanted.

    this is why the u.s. constitution was created as a mixed constitution, to divide power between the people and the states....the house is for the people, and the senate is for the states, this way no one group has all the power and cannot become tyrannical and violate the constitution.
    You are trying to undo 100 years of senators being elected by the people of state, not Some state party boss.

  4. #24
    Pragmatist
    AlabamaPaul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Alabama
    Last Seen
    12-08-17 @ 11:17 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    8,834

    Re: Should the choosing of Senators be taken from the people and given back to the st

    The simple answer is yes...
    I don't often change my signature, but this was just too over the top to let anyone forget with what this country is up against...
    Quote Originally Posted by James D Hill View Post
    I am for gay marriage because it ticks off Jesus freaks and social conservatives. Gays are also good voters because the vote for my side so I fight next to them.

  5. #25
    Mixed Government advocate
    Master PO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    93,000,000 miles from Earth where its very Hot
    Last Seen
    11-30-17 @ 01:52 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    31,331

    Re: Should the choosing of Senators be taken from the people and given back to the st

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    You are trying to undo 100 years of senators being elected by the people of state, not Some state party boss.
    you will find if you look at history after the 17th amendment you get long term senators, like Robert Byrd.

    before the 17th senators served short terms becuase legislatures changed them frequently.

    do you not question why our founders created our constitution as a mixed one, and the separation of powers.

    republican government divides power so special interest/ faction cannot rule our government

    democracy concentrates power, and this allows special interest/ faction to grow and control our government.

    i will give you federalist papers quotes to show you what i mean.

    federalist 10 from Madison, where is states democratic government is very factious and the founders created republican government which is less factious.

    "The other point of difference is, the greater number of citizens and extent of territory which may be brought within the compass of republican than of democratic government; and it is this circumstance principally which renders factious combinations less to be dreaded in the former than in the latter"


    federalist 47 from Madison, where he states if you give a person, few or group, or all the power to the people total power they will become tyrannical......

    "The accumulation of all powers, legislative, executive, and judiciary, in the same hands, whether of one, a few, or many, and whether hereditary, selfappointed, or elective, may justly be pronounced the very definition of tyranny"

    here is Madison again in federalist 63, saying that the senate is a voice of the states to stop any collectivist activity of the people, becuase if you give people all the power they will become collective by nature and be tyrannical.

    "The true distinction between these and the American governments, lies in the total exclusion of the people, in their collective capacity, from any share in the latter, and not in the total exclusion of the representatives of the people from the administration of the former"

  6. #26
    Global Moderator
    Moderator
    Anagram's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    St. Louis MO
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:42 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    6,174

    Re: Should the choosing of Senators be taken from the people and given back to the st

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Should the choosing of Senators be taken from the people and given back to the states?
    In a perfect world yes, but not right now when the state legislature districts are often even more gerrymandered than the House district. I do think having the power returned to the states would be a good thing, but I wouldn't want one party to control both houses of Congress for a decade just because they had a good year at the end of the last one.
    There should be Instant Runoff Voting

  7. #27
    Sage
    Unitedwestand13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Sunnyvale California
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:16 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    14,909

    Re: Should the choosing of Senators be taken from the people and given back to the st

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    you will find if you look at history after the 17th amendment you get long term senators, like Robert Byrd.

    before the 17th senators served short terms becuase legislatures changed them frequently.

    do you not question why our founders created our constitution as a mixed one, and the separation of powers.

    republican government divides power so special interest/ faction cannot rule our government

    democracy concentrates power, and this allows special interest/ faction to grow and control our government.

    i will give you federalist papers quotes to show you what i mean.

    federalist 10 from Madison, where is states democratic government is very factious and the founders created republican government which is less factious.

    "The other point of difference is, the greater number of citizens and extent of territory which may be brought within the compass of republican than of democratic government; and it is this circumstance principally which renders factious combinations less to be dreaded in the former than in the latter"


    federalist 47 from Madison, where he states if you give a person, few or group, or all the power to the people total power they will become tyrannical......

    "The accumulation of all powers, legislative, executive, and judiciary, in the same hands, whether of one, a few, or many, and whether hereditary, selfappointed, or elective, may justly be pronounced the very definition of tyranny"

    here is Madison again in federalist 63, saying that the senate is a voice of the states to stop any collectivist activity of the people, becuase if you give people all the power they will become collective by nature and be tyrannical.

    "The true distinction between these and the American governments, lies in the total exclusion of the people, in their collective capacity, from any share in the latter, and not in the total exclusion of the representatives of the people from the administration of the former"
    It was reformists and popularists that brought about the 17th ammendment, because the senate had become a aristocratic institute. If you want to blame anyone blame William Jennings Bryan .

  8. #28
    Mixed Government advocate
    Master PO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    93,000,000 miles from Earth where its very Hot
    Last Seen
    11-30-17 @ 01:52 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    31,331

    Re: Should the choosing of Senators be taken from the people and given back to the st

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    It was reformists and popularists that brought about the 17th ammendment, because the senate had become a aristocratic institute. If you want to blame anyone blame William Jennings Bryan .
    by having the 17th amendment to our constitution it has moved us closer to democracy, expect for the electoral collage, once that is gone we will be a democracy for sure!

    Madison a great thinker says directly that democratic government is very factious...and it is.......and we the american people COMPLAIN ABOUT IT....WHY?......when we call for more democracy, if you want democracy, then you have to take the faction the special interest that goes along with it that controls our government.

    its silly to complain about government ......and then promote , what is causing the problem

  9. #29
    Iconoclast
    DaveFagan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    wny
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:48 PM
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    7,290

    Re: Should the choosing of Senators be taken from the people and given back to the st

    I'm a hardhead and think that as long as we keep electing people to office that love money, and most of our Senators and Congressmen of both sexes are millionaires, then we will be working with flawed materials and the result will be what we have, flawed gov't. Of money, by money, for the money. Screw a bunch of voters. What the hell does one vote buy. Nuttin' honey. Now try a million dollars and see how many votes you can buy.

  10. #30
    Sage
    Unitedwestand13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Sunnyvale California
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:16 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    14,909

    Re: Should the choosing of Senators be taken from the people and given back to the st

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    by having the 17th amendment to our constitution it has moved us closer to democracy, expect for the electoral collage, once that is gone we will be a democracy for sure!

    Madison a great thinker says directly that democratic government is very factious...and it is.......and we the american people COMPLAIN ABOUT IT....WHY?......when we call for more democracy, if you want democracy, then you have to take the faction the special interest that goes along with it that controls our government.

    its silly to complain about government ......and then promote , what is causing the problem
    Trying to bring back maddisons ideal government without accounting for all the changes that has happened since Madison's era is naive.

Page 3 of 19 FirstFirst 1234513 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •