View Poll Results: Should the choosing of Senators be taken from the people and given back to the states

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    31 41.33%
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Thread: Should the choosing of Senators be taken from the people and given back to the states

  1. #11
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    Re: Should the choosing of Senators be taken from the people and given back to the st

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateMk1 View Post
    The original purpose of senators was to represent the STATE not the people. You already have a representative, why do you need another 2 where your power to remove or elect them is much further diluted hence they are not nearly accountable. Were as when the state elected them they were accountable to the legislative body of that state, and therefor even MORE accountable. The states no longer are represented directly as an entity as they were before. States have interests that differ from that of the populous at large hence why they need to be represented directly, as originally intended.
    The STATE is the people. That is something that should never be forgotten.
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    Re: Should the choosing of Senators be taken from the people and given back to the st

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    The STATE is the people. That is something that should never be forgotten.
    True, however the State as an entity is separate and has separate interests many of which deal with interworking's of government between themselves, something important to the state but of very little interest to most people.
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  3. #13
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    Re: Should the choosing of Senators be taken from the people and given back to the st

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    Could the reason that the founders hated democracy was because it meant sharing power with the common people? It kind of gives the impression that the founding fathers were elitists.
    no that is not the reason, the founders did not have tv, radio or the internet, ...........but they read books.

    Madison months before the constitutional convention wrote to jefferson and asked him to send him books on governments of the world.

    Madison is Reading these books saw why governments fail, democracies are evil, so he sought to create a government where no one or few on many could have total power, ..."becuase absolute power corrupts absolute"

    if you give 1 person total power he will be tyrannical ,its the same with a few, and if you give all total power to the all the people they will also be corrupt, becuase the majority will control the minority and the founders knew this.

    so they created a mixed constitution- federalist 40, which separated power, the people have direct power in the house, and indirect power in the senate.

    the senate is to be a voice of the states and their power under federalism.

    our constitution gives us federalism, which separates power between states and the federal government, and limits the federal government to only 18 duties, and all other powers are state powers, today when government takes powers of states away by creating new laws the states have no power to stop them.

    however before the 17th ,every state had a say in government, the senate, and that power of the states limited the federal government, and prevented government from creasing state powers.

    democracy... which america has moved towards in the last 100 years with the 17th is evil,

    we as a people bitch and moan and complain our government is bought and paid for...yes it is!...why because democracy breeds faction or special interest, ...republican government of the founders limits faction /special interest so it cannot control our government or the people.

    but people in america have never lived under true republican government because it ended with the 17th amendment and it needs to me stored, and our nations power needs to be returned to the people and the states.
    Last edited by Master PO; 06-29-13 at 06:20 PM.

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    Re: Should the choosing of Senators be taken from the people and given back to the st

    Yes. At the time the 17th amendment was passed there was no federal meddling in state election procedures/laws. As ever more power is taken from the state and transfered to the federal gov't, the large cities now have obtained even more power than could be imagined at the time the 17th amendment was considered and passed. Good luck with getting that toothpaste back into the tube now though. For example, there are more red states than blue states yet the Democratic party controls the U.S. Senate.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Should the choosing of Senators be taken from the people and given back to the st

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    Yeah I think the states lost the right to elect senators when it hand picked cronys that would cater to the state party bosses. Tammany hall is a good example.
    Very true, however my original statement still stands.
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    Re: Should the choosing of Senators be taken from the people and given back to the st

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    It does nothing to the federal government, and takes away the power of the people who live in the states, ie the ones the state governments are supposed to serve.
    you really need to read the founding documents and the federalist papers...

  7. #17
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    Re: Should the choosing of Senators be taken from the people and given back to the st

    The Federalist No. 40
    On the Powers of the Convention to Form a Mixed Government Examined and Sustained
    New York Packet
    Friday, January 18, 1788
    [James Madison]
    To the People of the State of New York:

    THE second point to be examined is, whether the convention were authorized to frame and propose this mixed Constitution.

    Mixed government, also known as a mixed constitution, is a form of government that integrates elements of democracy, aristocracy, and monarchy. In a mixed government, some issues (often defined in a constitution) are decided by the majority of the people, some other issues by few, and some other issues by a single person (also often defined in a constitution). The idea is commonly treated as an antecedent of separation of powers.

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    Re: Should the choosing of Senators be taken from the people and given back to the st

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    no that is not the reason, the founders did not have tv, radio or the internet, ...........but they read books.

    Madison months before the constitutional convention wrote to jefferson and asked him to send me books on governments of the world.

    Madison is Reading these books saw why governments fail, democracies are evil, so he sought to create a government where no one or few on many could have total power, ..."becuase absolute power corrupts absolute"

    if you give 1 person total power he will be tyrannical ,its the same with a few, and if you give all total power to the all the people they will also be corrupt, becuase the majority will control the minority and the founders knew this.

    so they created a mixed constitution- federalist 40, which separated power, the people have direct power in the house, and indirect power in the senate.

    the senate is to be a voice of the states and their power under federalism.

    our constitution gives us federalism, which separates power between states and the federal government, and limits the federal government to only 18 duties, and all other powers are state powers, today when government takes powers of a states away by creating new laws the states have no power to stop them.

    however before the 17th ,every state had a say in government, the senate, and that power of the states limited the federal government, and prevented government from creasing state powers.

    democracy... which america has moved towards in the last 100 years with the 17th is evil,

    we as a people bitch and moan and complain our government is bought and paid for...yes it is!...why because democracy breeds faction or special interest, ...republican government of the founders limits faction /special interest so it cannot control our government or the people.

    but people in america have never lived under true republican government because it ended with the 17th amendment and it needs to me stored, and our nations power needs to be returned to the people and the states.
    How is removing the power to directly elect senators benefit the people?

  9. #19
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    Re: Should the choosing of Senators be taken from the people and given back to the st

    Cronyism was a problem, yes, but it also provided a balance of power that for the most part served us well.

    Would the balance of the 19th century still hold in the 21st century, if the 17th Amendment had never passed? That's an interesting question.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

  10. #20
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    Re: Should the choosing of Senators be taken from the people and given back to the st

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    How is removing the power to directly elect senators benefit the people?
    because it puts power back into the hands of state legislatures who are elected by the people.

    with that state power, the federal government cannot mandate or create laws, which take away state powers in the first place, this keeps the federal government limited as the founders wanted.

    this is why the u.s. constitution was created as a mixed constitution, to divide power between the people and the states....the house is for the people, and the senate is for the states, this way no one group has all the power and cannot become tyrannical and violate the constitution.

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