View Poll Results: Should the choosing of Senators be taken from the people and given back to the states

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    31 41.33%
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    41 54.67%
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Thread: Should the choosing of Senators be taken from the people and given back to the states

  1. #91
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    Re: Should the choosing of Senators be taken from the people and given back to the st

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    Everything in this Country is about partisanship. Dems are behind the 8-ball because they can't stomach the 24/7/365 fight. Attacks on the 14th and 16th are well under way, and not by Dems.
    so that gets into the argument of the 17th , which has to do with appointed senators?

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    Re: Should the choosing of Senators be taken from the people and given back to the st

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    the founders did not want the people to have all direct power...that is why america has a mixed Constitution--federalist 40
    Right now it is reversed from what the founders wanted. Why not make gerrymandering illegal in all states and redraw the districts geographically? That would be a start to returning things to the way it was intended. Give the "peoples" House back to the people first then we could worry about the Senate.

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    Re: Should the choosing of Senators be taken from the people and given back to the st

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Right now it is reversed from what the founders wanted. Why not make gerrymandering illegal in all states and redraw the districts geographically? That would be a start to returning things to the way it was intended. Give the "peoples" House back to the people first then we could worry about the Senate.
    it would be better to have a constitutional amendment to a state constitution to handled that matter, if it is such a pressing issue then the people of a state, should solve the problem thru that avenue, if they are not addressing the subject, it must not be important to them enough.

    but even so, with things they way they are now, ..states still have no representation in government, and no power to stop the feds creasing their powers.

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    Re: Should the choosing of Senators be taken from the people and given back to the st

    Is the 17th in court? I read that 98% of the senators elected between 1871 and 1913 were from the party that controlled the majority in the combined state legislature, sans Nebraska.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    so that gets into the argument of the 17th , which has to do with appointed senators?

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    Re: Should the choosing of Senators be taken from the people and given back to the st

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    it would be better to have a constitutional amendment to a state constitution to handled that matter, if it is such a pressing issue then the people of a state, should solve the problem thru that avenue, if they are not addressing the subject, it must not be important to them enough.

    but even so, with things they way they are now, ..states still have no representation in government, and no power to stop the feds creasing their powers.
    That's just not true, the House has the States power, can't you see that in the gridlock they are causing? You just want to take ALL the power from the voters by gerrymandering the Senate too.

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    Re: Should the choosing of Senators be taken from the people and given back to the st

    Progressives versus Federalists, 17th amendment--which would G. Washington favor--since so many other amendments seem to have problems also, I'll bring up an old idea. To have an open-ended Constitutional Convention, with 50 state capitals feeding a Central location, which should be easy to agree on, like any or all of the sports arenas in St. Louis. This Constitution could use a 224-year lube job at the very least.

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    Re: Should the choosing of Senators be taken from the people and given back to the st

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    Is the 17th in court? I read that 98% of the senators elected between 1871 and 1913 were from the party that controlled the majority in the combined state legislature, sans Nebraska.
    no i dont believe the issue is in court.....

    state legislators are elected by the people, therefore if a democrat or repub house is elected, the people must want that party in power of that state..(my personal view is,we should not have parties as g. Washington stated)

    state legislature appoints the senator, which means they have to vote, who ever get the most is appointed, are you against that?

    since also when the senator is appointed, they direct his vote, and can remove him from office and replace him.

    there direction of his vote serves to protect the states from the inherent powers of the federal government to increase its those powers more.

    the federal government was given 18 duties with states the rest, anytime the feds create a new power for themselves, they are taking away power from the states. ..this one of the reason states had representation in out government thru the senate to prevent this

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    Re: Should the choosing of Senators be taken from the people and given back to the st

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    the founders did not want the people to have all direct power...that is why america has a mixed Constitution--federalist 40
    I am not sure why this is hard for you but: the founders are dead. What they wanted is mostly irrelevant. We have to think for ourselves and figure these things out. I think the founders would be appalled at the thought that we had to blindly do what people long dead and not actually privy to the situation said. The founders did not blindly accept much, why do you?
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

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    Re: Should the choosing of Senators be taken from the people and given back to the st

    Why would anyone believe that changing the way a Senator is placed in the U.S. Senate will have any bearing on how he votes? Elected or appointed, the Senator will still vote for whoever pays him the most.

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    Re: Should the choosing of Senators be taken from the people and given back to the st

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    That's just not true, the House has the States power, can't you see that in the gridlock they are causing? You just want to take ALL the power from the voters by gerrymandering the Senate too.
    what?.......the house is for the people becuase it is a direct vote, the senate is for the states, that is why it was an indirect vote.

    Mixed government, also known as a mixed constitution, is a form of government that integrates elements of democracy, aristocracy, and monarchy. In a mixed government, some issues (often defined in a constitution) are decided by the majority of the people, some other issues by few, and some other issues by a single person (also often defined in a constitution). The idea is commonly treated as an antecedent of separation of powers.

    democracy is the house.....direct vote

    aristocracy is the senate..and indirect vote.....this DOES NOT MEAN ROYALTY.......it means people of the senate will be people appointed who have political experience already, they will not be new political officials


    The Federalist No. 40
    On the Powers of the Convention to Form a Mixed Government Examined and Sustained
    New York Packet
    Friday, January 18, 1788
    [James Madison]
    To the People of the State of New York:

    THE second point to be examined is, whether the convention were authorized to frame and propose this mixed Constitution.

    The powers of the convention ought, in strictness, to be determined by an inspection of the commissions given to the members by their respective constituents. As all of these, however, had reference, either to the recommendation from the meeting at Annapolis, in September, 1786, or to that from Congress, in February, 1787, it will be sufficient to recur to these particular acts.

    The act from Annapolis recommends the "appointment of commissioners to take into consideration the situation of the United States; to devise such further provisions as shall appear to them necessary to render the Constitution of the federal government adequate to the exigencies of the Union; and to report such an act for that purpose, to the United States in Congress assembled, as when agreed to by them, and afterwards confirmed by the legislature of every State, will effectually provide for the same."

    The recommendatory act of Congress is in the words following: "Whereas, there is provision in the articles of Confederation and perpetual Union, for making alterations therein, by the assent of a Congress of the United States, and of the legislatures of the several States; and whereas experience hath evinced, that there are defects in the present Confederation; as a mean to remedy which, several of the States, and particularly the State of New York, by express instructions to their delegates in Congress, have suggested a convention for the purposes expressed in the following resolution; and such convention appearing to be the most probable mean of establishing in these States a firm national government:

    "Resolved -- That in the opinion of Congress it is expedient, that on the second Monday of May next a convention of delegates, who shall have been appointed by the several States, be held at Philadelphia, for the sole and express purpose of revising the Articles of Confederation, and reporting to Congress and the several legislatures such alterations and provisions therein, as shall, when agreed to in Congress, and confirmed by the States, render the federal Constitution adequate to the exigencies of government and the preservation of the Union."

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