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Is the term "Uncle Tom" racist? [W:56]

Is the term "Uncle Tom" racist?

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re: Is the term "Uncle Tom" racist? [W:56]

pbrauer said:
Is the term "Uncle Tom" racist?


Yes


No


I Don't Know
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I would also propose that conservative opposition to the term "Uncle Tom" is there own version of "political correctness." It seems that many conservatives who have no qualms calling black liberals "brainwashed" and "lazy" and "on a plantation" for their beliefs are the same people who take issue with calling black conservatives "uncle Toms" for theirs.
 
re: Is the term "Uncle Tom" racist? [W:56]

CanadaJohn said:
I appreciate your point - I'd just ask, if the term is used by one black person against another black person for essentially not being black enough, isn't that then proof that the term is race related and used to imply, explicitly or implicitly, that the black person is white, at least in their thinking?
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That's not why it's used. You keep reducing it to that, but you're wrong. The term is used to denote black people who hurt other black people in order to please white people.
 
re: Is the term "Uncle Tom" racist? [W:56]

pbrauer said:
It's definitely a derogatory term, but since its typically directed at a single person and not toward the whole race I don't see it as racist.

Uncle tom - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
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If a white man calls a black man n****r, do you think he's talking about all black men or just the one he's speaking to? If he's just speaking to that one black man, do you believe his use of the word isn't racist?
 
re: Is the term "Uncle Tom" racist? [W:56]

Mr. Invisible said:
No, all black people are not expected to act the same way, but blacks are expected to not be sellouts and bootlickers. For example, some would Clarence Thomas to be an Uncle Tom, seeing as how he didn't back a stay on the execution of Troy Davis when several witnesses had admitted that their testimonies had been false. (Clarence Thomas under fire for Troy Davis decision | theGrio) \\
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So Clarence Thomas, in order to not be an Uncle Tom should not rule on law but on race, giving preference to blacks? What if he'd have made the exact same decision if the guy was white?
 
re: Is the term "Uncle Tom" racist? [W:56]

CanadaJohn said:
If a white man calls a black man n****r, do you think he's talking about all black men or just the one he's speaking to? If he's just speaking to that one black man, do you believe his use of the word isn't racist?
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"Nigger" is inherently used to denote black people, in general. "Uncle Tom" is inherently used to describe a specific "type" of black person. What part of this do you not understand. It has nothing to do with the intent of the speaker, but the meaning of the word.
 
re: Is the term "Uncle Tom" racist? [W:56]

CanadaJohn said:
If a white man calls a black man n****r, do you think he's talking about all black men or just the one he's speaking to? If he's just speaking to that one black man, do you believe his use of the word isn't racist?
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I've already explained all this, CJ. If it's a term used by liberals against black conservatives it's completely ok and justified. Everything else you'll hear from TPD or Pasch or whoever can all be reduced to that.
 
re: Is the term "Uncle Tom" racist? [W:56]

ThePlayDrive said:
"Nigger" is inherently used to denote black people, in general. "Uncle Tom" is inherently used to describe a specific "type" of black person. What part of this do you not understand. It has nothing to do with the intent of the speaker, but the meaning of the word.
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I didn't ask you - but since you answered, your response is idiotic nonsense. It is always the intent of a speaker in the way they use language, not merely the meaning of the words used. Any fool understands that.
 
re: Is the term "Uncle Tom" racist? [W:56]

X Factor said:
So Clarence Thomas, in order to not be an Uncle Tom should not rule on law but on race, giving preference to blacks? What if he'd have made the exact same decision if the guy was white?
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No, he was not supposed to rule on race. It is the fact that he ignored that the witnesses had admitted that their testimony was false and thus Troy Davis execution should have been stayed. It is the fact he ignored the evidence which would have given Troy Davis a second chance, a chance that he deserved, given the admissions and its affect on the trial.

If he had made the same decision on someone who was white, he would still have been in the wrong, but he would not be an Uncle Tom as, like I said before, it is used among black people to describe traitors and bootlickers in our community.


CanadaJohn said:
I appreciate your point - I'd just ask, if the term is used by one black person against another black person for essentially not being black enough, isn't that then proof that the term is race related and used to imply, explicitly or implicitly, that the black person is white, at least in their thinking?
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No, it doesn't have to do with the person being black enough, but rather has to do with their actions and specifically how those actions are done for their own personal enrichment at the expense of the black community. For example, a slave who goes and tells the master that other slaves are planning to escape would be an Uncle Tom.
 
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re: Is the term "Uncle Tom" racist? [W:56]

CanadaJohn said:
I didn't ask you - but since you answered, your response is idiotic nonsense. It is always the intent of a speaker in the way they use language, not merely the meaning of the words used. Any fool understands that.
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Calm down. Words have meanings. The n word and "uncle tom" have different meanings. The former tends to refer to all black people while the latter always refers to specific black people. Therefore, your false comparison between the words is a failure.
 
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re: Is the term "Uncle Tom" racist? [W:56]

It's somewhat insulting to consider a standard in which a large group of people must engage in group think on the simple basis of the color of their skin, but the word racist is too often thrown around. It's more disappointing than racist though.
 
re: Is the term "Uncle Tom" racist? [W:56]

Mr. Invisible said:
No, he was not supposed to rule on race. It is the fact that he ignored that the witnesses had admitted that their testimony was false and thus Troy Davis execution should have been stayed. It is the fact he ignored the evidence which would have given Troy Davis a second chance, a chance that he deserved, give the admissions and its affect on the trial.

If he had made the same decision on someone who was white, he would still have been in the wrong, but he would not be an Uncle Tom as, like I said before, it is used among black people to describe traitors and bootlickers in our community.
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So any black judge who does not, at least, consider giving preferential treatment based on race is an Uncle Tom. Got it.
 
re: Is the term "Uncle Tom" racist? [W:56]

X Factor said:
So any black judge who does not, at least, consider giving preferential treatment based on race is an Uncle Tom. Got it.
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Reading comprehension FAIL!

"No, he was not supposed to rule on race. It is the fact that he ignored that the witnesses had admitted that their testimony was false and thus Troy Davis execution should have been stayed. It is the fact he ignored the evidence which would have given Troy Davis a second chance, a chance that he deserved, give the admissions and its affect on the trial.

If he had made the same decision on someone who was white, he would still have been in the wrong, but he would not be an Uncle Tom as, like I said before, it is used among black people to describe traitors and bootlickers in our community."
 
re: Is the term "Uncle Tom" racist? [W:56]

Mr. Invisible said:
Reading comprehension FAIL!

"No, he was not supposed to rule on race. It is the fact that he ignored that the witnesses had admitted that their testimony was false and thus Troy Davis execution should have been stayed. It is the fact he ignored the evidence which would have given Troy Davis a second chance, a chance that he deserved, give the admissions and its affect on the trial.

If he had made the same decision on someone who was white, he would still have been in the wrong, but he would not be an Uncle Tom as, like I said before, it is used among black people to describe traitors and bootlickers in our community."
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That is exactly what you're saying makes Thomas an Uncle Tom. Thomas' failure to back a stay on black defendant makes him a race traitor even if he would have made the exact same decision on a white guy.
 
re: Is the term "Uncle Tom" racist? [W:56]

If a black judge sentences a black defendant to the same sentence he would give a white defendant, is he an Uncle Tom?
 
re: Is the term "Uncle Tom" racist? [W:56]

X Factor said:
That is exactly what you're saying makes Thomas an Uncle Tom. Thomas' failure to back a stay on black defendant makes him a race traitor even if he would have made the exact same decision on a white guy.
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No, it is the fact that he let Troy Davis die when the evidence clearly showed that his trial deserved to be stayed.
 
re: Is the term "Uncle Tom" racist? [W:56]

pbrauer said:
Is the term "Uncle Tom" racist?


Yes


No


I Don't Know
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Depends on how it's used. One can be an Uncle Tom in a situation that fits the story but is not based on race. Or it can be based on race, but the characters behavior, not race, is, I think, the correct base for the meaning of the term.
 
re: Is the term "Uncle Tom" racist? [W:56]

Mr. Invisible said:
No, it is the fact that he let Troy Davis die when the evidence clearly showed that his trial deserved to be stayed.
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Whether he deserved it or not is irrelevant. You're saying he sold out his entire race for not backing the stay. For him to not be an Uncle Tom, he should not have failed to back the stay of a black defendant.
 
re: Is the term "Uncle Tom" racist? [W:56]

X Factor said:
Whether he deserved it or not is irrelevant. You're saying he sold out his entire race for not backing the stay. For him to not be an Uncle Tom, he should not have failed to back the stay of a black defendant.
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Actually it is quite relevant seeing as how it cost Troy Davis his life. I never stated that Thomas should have backed Davis on the basis of race, but on the basis of evidence.
 
re: Is the term "Uncle Tom" racist? [W:56]

Mr. Invisible said:
Actually it is quite relevant seeing as how it cost Troy Davis his life. I never stated that Thomas should have backed Davis on the basis of race, but on the basis of evidence.
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That's all your opinion. You're not calling him a traitor to the law, you're saying that failing to back the stay on someone else who's black is what makes him a traitor. If he had backed the stay solely based on race he would not be an Uncle Tom, correct?
 
re: Is the term "Uncle Tom" racist? [W:56]

X Factor said:
That's all your opinion. You're not calling him a traitor to the law, you're saying that failing to back the stay on someone else who's black is what makes him a traitor. If he had backed the stay solely based on race he would not be an Uncle Tom, correct?
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Wanna tell me where I stated he was a traitor solely based on that he didn't back Davis because he was black?
 
re: Is the term "Uncle Tom" racist? [W:56]

Mr. Invisible said:
Actually no. What you are describing are the differences in behavior that come from one's socioeconomic background. One can be a middle or upper-class back person and not be an Uncle Tom. The main behavior of an Uncle Tom is that they adamantly are willing to sell out black people or betray the race for their own personal gains or to look better in the eyes of whites. For an example of this, all one need to do is look at the character Uncle Ruckus from the tv series The Boondocks, although they obviously aren't that extreme in real life.
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I'm sorry, maybe I wasn't clear. When I wrote "I've heard it being used..." I meant I literally heard it being used that way. I spent a major portion of my youth between 1959 -1975 living in Harlem, NY. The Uncle I told you about lived just down the street on Convent Ave., while I was up with my grandma off Amsterdam Ave in a mid-140's St. block That doesnt include a stint in Watts when I was in 7th Grade (Samuel Gompers Jr High). I had another Black uncle and four cousins in the Bronx, a Puerto Rican uncle and three cousins down the street, and I am half American Indian living with my grandma while my dad was in the service. I am fully aware of racial issues.

Now things don't seem so bad today, but still I've heard street kids call other kids "Uncle Tom" just because they were trying to work themselves out of the ghettos. I wouldn't go so far as to say you are wrong, just not completely right. :)
 
re: Is the term "Uncle Tom" racist? [W:56]

Mr. Invisible said:
Wanna tell me where I stated he was a traitor solely based on that he didn't back Davis because he was black?
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Dude, how can someone be a traitor to their race unless it's based on race?
 
re: Is the term "Uncle Tom" racist? [W:56]

pbrauer said:
Is the term "Uncle Tom" racist?


Yes

No


I Don't Know
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Absolutely, Black people have been holding down their own by giving other black people the Uncle Tom label for generations.
 
re: Is the term "Uncle Tom" racist? [W:56]

X Factor said:
Dude, how can someone be a traitor to their race unless it's based on race?
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Thomas was a traitor because he allowed Troy Davis to be killed when there was evidence that the allegations against him were forced. He is a traitor because he allowed Troy Davis to be a victim of the racism within the death penalty.

"Anyone who doubts the death penalty’s past connection with racism need only consider this statistic: Between 1930 and 1967 (at which point executions stopped pending a decade-long Supreme Court overhaul of the death penalty), 54 percent of the 3,859 people put to death under civilian authority in the U.S. were African American. This was not only out of proportion with the black share of the total population but also out of proportion with the percentage of serious crimes committed by blacks. Given that history, lingering racism is an undeniable risk factor looming over today’s system." The Death Penalty and Racism - Charles Lane - The American Interest Magazine

"Several years after the death penalty was reinstated in 1976, a University of Iowa law professor, David C. Baldus (who died last month), along with two colleagues, published a study examining more than 2,000 homicides that took place in Georgia beginning in 1972. They found that black defendants were 1.7 times more likely to receive the death penalty than white defendants and that murderers of white victims were 4.3 times more likely to be sentenced to death than those who killed blacks." http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/09/opinion/09dow.html?_r=0
 
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