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Creepy Ass Cracker.... Racist or no? [W:329/550]

Is the phrase "Creepy Ass Cracker" Racist?

  • Yes!

    Votes: 49 62.8%
  • No!

    Votes: 14 17.9%
  • I blame Whitey!

    Votes: 8 10.3%
  • Other

    Votes: 7 9.0%

  • Total voters
    78
Liberals believe they can, and they want the power of goverment to do it. That is one reason they don't believe in property rights.

It'll never happen. We can't legislate kindness, understanding or morality, so unfortunately we're stuck with them for all eternity! :mrgreen:
 
No problem. Go on believing that a minority pissing in the wind is as threatening as actual racism oppressing minorities and providing privilege to whites.

You are literally incapable of backing up anything you say aren't you? Every sociology professor I've had demonstrated this exact same problem. I thought they were just anomalies, but I guess facts takes a backseat to sounding good to other sociologists, eh?
 
Ecofarm's definition comes from an academic, specifically sociological, viewpoint as something such as race is a social construction and thus in order to get a better understanding of race and how it works in the overall society, he examines it through a sociological lens. Rather than use the everyday vernacular, he aims for a specific definition of what racism is and this informs his view of what is or is not racist, something which can be applied to any and all societies. Rather than looking at the actions of the individual, Ecofarm aims to looks at the social institutions within society and how they truly work rather than what they espouse to do or people think that they do. Such a view would lead him to realize that everything that deals with race in America, from the very idea of race to what is racist/racism, are institutionally based and that these institutions back one group over the other. Thus, he differentiates between what racism is and what bigotry is, noting racism is institutionally-based and thus is in and affects the society at large, whereas bigotry is based on the micro-level.

I think that if the situation were reverse, in terms of what race dominated American society (blacks rather than whites), Ecofarm would be stating that what Trayvon said was bigoted.

I am not saying that I agree or disagree with Ecofarm, I am just trying to explain his reasoning behind his definition.

To Ecofarm: Please correct me if I said anything wrong, that you disagree with.

Its called a sociological imagination for a reason. Its merely an interpretation, but offers absolutely zero value as to whether or not such a position is actually correct/rooted in fact.
 
Ecofarm's definition comes from an academic, specifically sociological, viewpoint as something such as race is a social construction and thus in order to get a better understanding of race and how it works in the overall society, he examines it through a sociological lens. Rather than use the everyday vernacular, he aims for a specific definition of what racism is and this informs his view of what is or is not racist, something which can be applied to any and all societies. Rather than looking at the actions of the individual, Ecofarm aims to looks at the social institutions within society and how they truly work rather than what they espouse to do or people think that they do. Such a view would lead him to realize that everything that deals with race in America, from the very idea of race to what is racist/racism, are institutionally based and that these institutions back one group over the other. Thus, he differentiates between what racism is and what bigotry is, noting racism is institutionally-based and thus is in and affects the society at large, whereas bigotry is based on the micro-level.

I think that if the situation were reverse, in terms of what race dominated American society (blacks rather than whites), Ecofarm would be stating that what Trayvon said was bigoted.

I am not saying that I agree or disagree with Ecofarm, I am just trying to explain his reasoning behind his definition.

To Ecofarm: Please correct me if I said anything wrong, that you disagree with.

The problem is you have to name these institutions. I don't know of any governmental institutions that promote racism. That needs clarification.
 
You are literally incapable of backing up anything you say aren't you? Every sociology professor I've had demonstrated this exact same problem. I thought they were just anomalies, but I guess facts takes a backseat to sounding good to other sociologists, eh?

If you want someone to prove racism exists in America, start a thread and perhaps one of our middle-schoolers could help.
 
It'll never happen. We can't legislate kindness, understanding or morality, so unfortunately we're stuck with them for all eternity! :mrgreen:
Well that's right however liberals use the power of goverment to force people into associations against their will .they look at racism and discrimination as a crime...which it is not, and want people punished by the courts.
 
The idea is not to purge society of ignorant haters but to eliminate their influence from our institutions. That has not yet occurred and this actual racism (as opposed to powerless bigotry) still exists in America. This actual oppression and privilege is a much bigger problem than common race-based bigotry that carries no real societal threat or power.

Which institutions oppress minorities? As others have noted, we DO have a black president who was elected by the individuals in this society that you claim to be based on some institutionalized racism. Fifty to 100 years ago, I would have agreed with you. But now, not so much.

Of course, I could be wrong, but I haven't seen any evidence to back what you are saying. :shrug:
 
Ecofarm's definition comes from an academic, specifically sociological, viewpoint as something such as race is a social construction and thus in order to get a better understanding of race and how it works in the overall society, he examines it through a sociological lens. Rather than use the everyday vernacular, he aims for a specific definition of what racism is and this informs his view of what is or is not racist, something which can be applied to any and all societies. Rather than looking at the actions of the individual, Ecofarm aims to looks at the social institutions within society and how they truly work rather than what they espouse to do or people think that they do. Such a view would lead him to realize that everything that deals with race in America, from the very idea of race to what is racist/racism, are institutionally based and that these institutions back one group over the other. Thus, he differentiates between what racism is and what bigotry is, noting racism is institutionally-based and thus is in and affects the society at large, whereas bigotry is based on the micro-level.

I think that if the situation were reverse, in terms of what race dominated American society (blacks rather than whites), Ecofarm would be stating that what Trayvon said was bigoted.

I am not saying that I agree or disagree with Ecofarm, I am just trying to explain his reasoning behind his definition.

To Ecofarm: Please correct me if I said anything wrong, that you disagree with.

That's correct except for the bold, which I presume is a typo. It should read: '... what Trayvon said was racist'.
 
The problem is you have to name these institutions. I don't know of any governmental institutions that promote racism. That needs clarification.

Institutions don't have to be government. It can be the media (eg mainstream news channels), educational institutions (eg colleges), and the like.

Its called a sociological imagination for a reason. Its merely an interpretation, but offers absolutely zero value as to whether or not such a position is actually correct/rooted in fact.

That's what academic, peer-reviewed sociological studies are for.

EDIT:


That's correct except for the bold, which I presume is a typo. It should read: '... what Trayvon said was racist'.


I edited the post to reflect the change.
 
Institutions don't have to be government. It can be the media (eg mainstream news channels), educational institutions (eg colleges), and the like.

Okay. I just want to see some examples of institutionalized racism.
 
If you want someone to prove racism exists in America, start a thread and perhaps one of our middle-schoolers could help.

And sociologists wonder why no one else takes them seriously.
 
Which institutions oppress minorities? As others have noted, we DO have a black president who was elected by the individuals in this society that you claim to be based on some institutionalized racism. Fifty to 100 years ago, I would have agreed with you. But now, not so much.

Of course, I could be wrong, but I haven't seen any evidence to back what you are saying. :shrug:

I'm not claiming that specific state institutions exist to openly oppress a minority.

I'm claiming that racism (racial bigotry against a minority [power]) still exists in America and it permeates all of our institutions. Racial bigotry against whites does not permeate or even affect any of society's institutions. That's the difference between the bigotries.
 
I'm not claiming that specific state institutions exist to openly oppress a minority.

I'm claiming that racism (racial bigotry against a minority power) still exists in America and it permeates all of our institutions. Racial bigotry against whites does not permeate or even affect any of society's institutions. That's the difference between the bigotries.

How can you make that claim? Are there no black or other minority-based institutions?

And how would you explain America voting for a black man as the president?
 
It's a racial slur but not racist. Racism requires institutional backing.

Since when did racism need institutional backing? Racism is racism whether it be institutional or personal. I mean according to the definition, you know in the dictionary anyway.

Now people want to be racist, but if not back up by an institution it's OK because it's supposedly not racist? What a load of crap.
 
I'm not claiming that specific state institutions exist to openly oppress a minority.

I'm claiming that racism (racial bigotry against a minority [power]) still exists in America and it permeates all of our institutions. Racial bigotry against whites does not permeate or even affect any of society's institutions. That's the difference between the bigotries.

Ok I agree with this but it does not mean it needs to be backed by an institution to be racist. If a checkout clerk refuses someone service because of race, it is a racist act. If the person believes they are justified and above the other person because of race, it is indeed racist. Even if the person is fired, it makes the action and person no less racist.
 
How can you make that claim? Are there no black or other minority-based institutions?

Ok I agree with this but it does not mean it needs to be backed by an institution to be racist. If a checkout clerk refuses someone service because or race, it is a racist act. If the person believes they are justified and above the other person it is indeed racist. Even if the person is fired, it makes the action and person no less racist.


You're missing the big (national) picture:

Racial bigotry against whites has no affect on me.
Racial bigotry against blacks has a tremendous affect on them (and thus us).

Racial bigotry against me is not racism. There is no societal and thus institutional power for me to fear.
Racial bigotry against blacks is racism. There is societal and institutional power behind the hatred.
 
Okay. I just want to see some examples of institutionalized racism.

Gladly :)

"One historic example of institutional racism is the barring of African-American students from attending certain public schools, which limited the students' educational opportunities and helped prevent them from achieving a status equal to that of others. Institutional racism need not involve intentional racial discrimination. For example, individual judges might intend to impose similar sentences for similar crimes; yet if Caucasian people tend to receive lighter punishments, plausibly institutional racism occurs." (Definition of Institutional Racism | Chegg.com) [In regards to that last sentence, think the crack-cocaine sentencing disparity.)

Look also:

Racism in Schools: Unintentional But No Less Damaging

Examples of Institutional Racism | Educational Leadership Development Resource Library

Institutional Racism in US Health Care

http://webmedia.unmc.edu/community/citymatch/CityMatCHUndoingRacismReport.pdf
 
It almost seems as if this is a convenient way to basically say that everyone who is a white American is a racist, based on some bogus "institutionalized" racism. Yet no one can seem to actually point out any of this supposed institutionalized racism? If it exists, then it can be seen. Otherwise, this is nothing but a person's or group of people's theories.

Another thing to think about is differences in individual people. Do many people refer to a black doctor as the n-word? Doubtful. Of course there's always going to be that jerk. However, look at your average black gangbanger, and I'm sure that person has been referred to as the n-word numerous times. Is it really because of the color of his skin?
 
You're missing the big (national) picture:

Racial bigotry against whites has no affect on me.
Racial bigotry against blacks has a tremendous affect on them (and thus us).

Racial bigotry against me is not racism. There is no societal and thus institutional power for me to fear.
Racial bigotry against blacks is racism. There is societal and institutional power behind the hatred.

No I see what you are saying. I don't agree.

You don't need an "institutional affect" for it to be racism....

rac·ism [rey-siz-uhm] Show IPA
noun
1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.


Argue with the accepted meaning of the word in our modern language. You can't just change the definition to suit yourself.

PS: I still blame whitey. Of course by your definition since I am hurting no one that statement is not racist. :doh
 
You're missing the big (national) picture:

Racial bigotry against whites has no affect on me.
Racial bigotry against blacks has a tremendous affect on them (and thus us).

Racial bigotry against me is not racism. There is no societal and thus institutional power for me to fear.
Racial bigotry against blacks is racism. There is societal and institutional power behind the hatred.

Unless you can come up with some specific examples of this institutionalized racism, then I'm not buying it.

Explain how bigotry has a "huge" effect on black people, and I'm not talking about things that are already illegal, such as illegal discriminatory hiring practices.
 
Unless you can come up with some specific examples of this institutionalized racism, then I'm not buying it.

Explain how bigotry has a "huge" effect on black people, and I'm not talking about things that are already illegal, such as illegal discriminatory hiring practices.

I think this post does well, as an introduction:

Gladly :)

"One historic example of institutional racism is the barring of African-American students from attending certain public schools, which limited the students' educational opportunities and helped prevent them from achieving a status equal to that of others. Institutional racism need not involve intentional racial discrimination. For example, individual judges might intend to impose similar sentences for similar crimes; yet if Caucasian people tend to receive lighter punishments, plausibly institutional racism occurs." (Definition of Institutional Racism | Chegg.com) [In regards to that last sentence, think the crack-cocaine sentencing disparity.)

Look also:

Racism in Schools: Unintentional But No Less Damaging

Examples of Institutional Racism | Educational Leadership Development Resource Library

Institutional Racism in US Health Care

http://webmedia.unmc.edu/community/citymatch/CityMatCHUndoingRacismReport.pdf
 
Gladly :)

"One historic example of institutional racism is the barring of African-American students from attending certain public schools, which limited the students' educational opportunities and helped prevent them from achieving a status equal to that of others. Institutional racism need not involve intentional racial discrimination. For example, individual judges might intend to impose similar sentences for similar crimes; yet if Caucasian people tend to receive lighter punishments, plausibly institutional racism occurs." (Definition of Institutional Racism | Chegg.com) [In regards to that last sentence, think the crack-cocaine sentencing disparity.)

Look also:

Racism in Schools: Unintentional But No Less Damaging

Examples of Institutional Racism | Educational Leadership Development Resource Library

Institutional Racism in US Health Care

http://webmedia.unmc.edu/community/citymatch/CityMatCHUndoingRacismReport.pdf

Interesting, but historical things don't count. We're talking about today, modern times.

I find one of the links interesting where they talk about special education. Do you actually believe that schools just throw black children into special education classes for the hell of it? Or do you think perhaps these children really do have special needs. Perhaps because they come from a poor household with a single parent who spends much of his/her time at work and doesn't have the time to actually teach their child or help their child to overcome difficulties at school?

I've got to say that some of the things included in those links show some seriously paranoid thought processes. THAT is worrisome.
 
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