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Thread: Is it possible for a capitalist civilization to have any set collective convictions?

  1. #1
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    Is it possible for a capitalist civilization to have any set collective convictions?

    I do not believe so.

    I am essentially a Marxian without the -ist; I subscribe more or less fully to the dialectic without also taking on the teleology of orthodox Marxist theology.

    In the dialectic, more or less, capitalism is imagined as an eternally dynamic social arrangement that must perpetually revolutionize itself to continue to exist: the printing press must be replaced by the laser printer or society will reach an overcapacity of presses and the market for them will collapse.

    I believe the same holds true for the cultural expression of these social arrangements. Capitalism as a fully realized, wholly integrated world system has been realized in the United States, by my reckoning, only since the election of 1896 (a symbolic marker rather than a literal one), putting the capstone on a project of building that began with the Civil War and was presaged by earlier revolutions, both industrial and political.

    Since then we have seen the creation and destruction of new and old arrangements without historical precedent. The Civil Rights movement - feminism - gay liberation - Chicanoism - industrial unionism - the Counterculture.

    I hold these are not the products of liberalism, as capital's self-proclaimed champions hold, but are, rather, deeply embedded in capitalism as a revolutionary force.

    And that is why I am a libertarian.
    I dip my forefinger in the watery blood of your impotent mad-redeemer (your Divine Democrat — your Hebrew Madman) and write over his thorn-torn brow, “The true prince of Evil — the king of the Slaves!”
    - Ragnar Redbeard, Might Is Right, 1890

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    Only Losers H8 Capitalism
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    Re: Is it possible for a capitalist civilization to have any set collective convictio

    Only if each member of that collection holds to the non-aggression principle.
    Haymarket's "support" of the 2nd Amendment, a right he believes we never had.
    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    no. You cannot lose rights you do not have in the first place. There is no such thing as the right to have any weapon of your choice regardless of any other consideration. It simply does not exist.

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    Re: Is it possible for a capitalist civilization to have any set collective convictio

    Quote Originally Posted by Lachean View Post
    Only if each member of that collection holds to the non-aggression principle.
    I believe the NAP is neither necessary nor desirable for a fully-realized capitalist structure. I put more stock into self-justifying ontological individualism than on an abstract ethical theory (I oppose the "night watchman State").

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    Only Losers H8 Capitalism
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    Re: Is it possible for a capitalist civilization to have any set collective convictio

    Quote Originally Posted by Einzige View Post
    I believe the NAP is neither necessary nor desirable for a fully-realized capitalist structure. I put more stock into self-justifying ontological individualism than on an abstract ethical theory (I oppose the "night watchman State").
    A lot of terms there I need you to make clear.

    What is a "fully-realized capitalist structure" and why is the NAP an abstract ethical theory rather than the social contract we all uphold in our everyday lives? What is the night watchman state?

    Finally why would this fully-realized capitalist structure be threatened by non-aggression? What non-violent people need force initiated against them in order for it to work?

    I find it strange to hear a libertarian find the NAP undesirable.
    Haymarket's "support" of the 2nd Amendment, a right he believes we never had.
    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    no. You cannot lose rights you do not have in the first place. There is no such thing as the right to have any weapon of your choice regardless of any other consideration. It simply does not exist.

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    Re: Is it possible for a capitalist civilization to have any set collective convictio

    Quote Originally Posted by Einzige View Post
    I do not believe so.

    I am essentially a Marxian without the -ist; I subscribe more or less fully to the dialectic without also taking on the teleology of orthodox Marxist theology.

    In the dialectic, more or less, capitalism is imagined as an eternally dynamic social arrangement that must perpetually revolutionize itself to continue to exist: the printing press must be replaced by the laser printer or society will reach an overcapacity of presses and the market for them will collapse.

    I believe the same holds true for the cultural expression of these social arrangements. Capitalism as a fully realized, wholly integrated world system has been realized in the United States, by my reckoning, only since the election of 1896 (a symbolic marker rather than a literal one), putting the capstone on a project of building that began with the Civil War and was presaged by earlier revolutions, both industrial and political.

    Since then we have seen the creation and destruction of new and old arrangements without historical precedent. The Civil Rights movement - feminism - gay liberation - Chicanoism - industrial unionism - the Counterculture.

    I hold these are not the products of liberalism, as capital's self-proclaimed champions hold, but are, rather, deeply embedded in capitalism as a revolutionary force.

    And that is why I am a libertarian.
    Wait, are you claiming that all those things are a result of capitalism?

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    Re: Is it possible for a capitalist civilization to have any set collective convictio

    I don't really care one way or the other.

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