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Is Homosexuality A Choice?

Is Homosexuality A Choice?

  • Yes

    Votes: 33 15.9%
  • No

    Votes: 136 65.7%
  • Maybe/Don't Know

    Votes: 38 18.4%

  • Total voters
    207
Clearly the solution is imprison all the straight men.
Do it for the children.
I have no problem what so ever with the pedo's my kid is grown
nambla has already hitched a ride on the gay equal rights bandwagon
none to far down the road there will be a thread here how pedo's got
taken out off the DSM-IV-TR as well

"and the beat goes on, the beat goes on
Drums keep pounding
A rhythm to the brain
La de da de de, la de da de da"
 
yeah ok civil rights has become the reverse discrimination of affirmative action

How does letting gays result in reverse discrimination? How does letting gays discriminate against anyone?

the sexual revolution free love and feminism has given us 55 million abortions

Actually abortion clinics did that. Furthermore, abortions were happening well before the sexual revolution. What does this have to do with civil rights? Are you saying women should still be property?

single family households a divorce rate off the charts rampant teenage pregnancies
and the number of out of wedlock births has risen to the point that its thought of as normal

And what is the relevance to civil rights?

but c'mon trying to force the Boyscouts to have homosexual scout masters?
tain't that just a tad bit too much in our faces?

No one is forcing them to have homosexual scout masters but the organization itself. You are saying that if you're part of an organization, you shouldn't be allowed to push for change. Finally, the vast majority of pedophiles are straight males. So the safest choice is a lesbian scout master.
 
Why such a big deal.
All will become gays, they will be wiped because there will be no more newborns.

Somewhere in a hidden cave will be 2 people (Adam and Eva Juniors) and the story goes on again .....
 
No I don't think its a choice. I think its a mental disease and should be treated as such.
 
I think its a disorder you are born with...dunno if it can be fixed or not. Just like my son was born with high functioning autism aka Aspergers he had no choice in that...just born that way and yet its a mental disorder and hopefully we can help him. Same goes for homosexuality.
 
I think its a disorder you are born with...dunno if it can be fixed or not. Just like my son was born with high functioning autism aka Aspergers he had no choice in that...just born that way and yet its a mental disorder and hopefully we can help him. Same goes for homosexuality.

Just to clear things up, homosexuality isn't a disorder according to the medical/clinical definition of the word. It is not a mental disorder, nor an illness, nor a disease.
 
Just to clear things up, homosexuality isn't a disorder according to the medical/clinical definition of the word. It is not a mental disorder, nor an illness, nor a disease.

According to the current class of doctors/mental health folks no...before the 70's yes it was considered so but a huge influx of liberals into the fields changed it. Aspergers used to be considered a condition in and of its self now its considered high functioning autism,all because they decided to change it like snapping their fingers...to easy to change things.
 
I think its a disorder you are born with...dunno if it can be fixed or not. Just like my son was born with high functioning autism aka Aspergers he had no choice in that...just born that way and yet its a mental disorder and hopefully we can help him. Same goes for homosexuality.

I'm much more interested in curing homophobia.
 
Well the majority of gay people concentrate really hard on being straight for most of their young lives, and it doesn't work. Not only that, but they never concentrated on becoming gay in the first place, so it clearly is not a choice. If you think homosexuality is a choice, then choose it. Good luck.

There are many reasons why I don't choose homosexuality. I described my fear of social consequences and my fear of an identity crisis (also a social consequence) in an earlier post. I know, I know. You would say that I MUST be a bisexual or maybe a closet homosexual, living as a heterosexual. I would agree with the former, because as I said before, I *believe* we can change orientation/attraction... and that makes us bisexuals.


No, which is why I said you can't choose to have a bisexual orientation. Orientation cannot be chosen. When you talk about people being with girls and then guys, you can only assume they are bisexual. It makes no sense to assume they are changing orientations.

That is based on the unproven premise that orientation can't be chosen. But what if it can? Then more of that line of logic collapses. I'm not trying to say that you are wrong and I am right. I'm only discussing what I believe and questioning what you believe.

Before posting, I re-read the APA's blurbs on orientation and its causes. Regarding cause, the APA reports that there is no consensus regarding factor(s) that may lead to orientation. The APA also states that "most people experience little or no sense of choice" in the matter. This last sentence, of course is not conclusive proof.

I'm sticking to this topic as long as I have people who read and respond to my ideas. Here's another idea....

Gender equality is on the rise in America. Activities in school that were once segregated are now not. Boys can play dress up and doll house in kindergarten and girls can build block towers and knock 'em down. High school sports are becoming more desegregated. Female place kickers and quarterbacks on the football team. Even if the teams are not integrated, more schools are creating leagues for the girls to play the same sports as the boys, such as lacrosse.

Those are just a few examples. There are plenty of non-examples. But I believe that the trend is toward equality.

Now, assuming that girls can do what boys can do, and vice versa, (Oh! and females are now allowed on navy submarines and their role in combat is expanding) the obvious gender differences (gender, not sex, not biology) are getting smaller. What are some other gender differences besides clothing, haircuts, sports, and toys? Here is my idea...

The romantic love that a man feels for a woman and vice versa was based in large part on gender differences. This romantic love was defined in part by the fact that it was different from male-male camaraderie/loyalty and female-female camaraderie/loyalty. Traditionally speaking, male-male camaraderie is not romantic; is not love. Or is it?

If the gender differences listed above are disappearing/getting smaller, then why can't the same be said of the difference b/w male-male (heterosexual) camaraderie and female-female (heterosexual) camaraderie as compared to male-female romantic love?

Here's an example. BTW I'm sorry if I'm not making myself clear. This is a new idea and I'm hearing it for the first time myself. Example: I have a few close friends in life. Male friends. My buds, my bros. Guys I tell every secret to, guys with whom I feel no shame because we know each other for so long and so well. Guys I served with, was deployed with, guys I went to college and grew up with. I am loyal to these guys. I am there when they need me, I do not hesitate to ask them for help. When I walk into a room full of strangers and one of my bros is there, I immediately feel better/relieved. This feeling of relief is very similar to the feeling I get when I meet my wife in a room full of strangers. Likewise, the devotion and loyalty and sacrifices I would make to these guy friends are the same (as far as I can tell) that I would make for my wife.

Can it then be concluded that my love for my guy friends the same as my love for my wife? Now, with gender differences taken into account, you would say no. Guys are just buddies, life-long, throw-theirselves-on-a-grenade-for-you buddies. While women/wives are the ones we get intimate with, write poetry for, go through embarrassing situations with her friends/relatives for, have children with, grow old and die with. Afterall, we are men and they are women and THAT is the difference. But... if gender differences among clothing, haircuts, toys, sports and combat are going away, then shouldn't the distinction b/w feelings for bro's and spouses go away too?

Furthermore, I would share my writing with my bros and be their wingman in any social occasion no matter how embarrassing. So that distinction b/w bro-love and wife-love also disintegrates.

In other words, If all or nearly all gender differences b/w men and women disappear, resulting in men and women fulfilling identical roles in both society and relationships (cooking, cleaning, changing the oil, fixing the garbage disposal) then what remains that separates Bro-Love from Wife-Love?
 
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I am interested in curing both but seeing how 1 of those affects my child much more interested in that.

Yes but my point was that if it weren't for the stigma, there would be no need for a 'cure'. It's not inherently harmful. This is what you ignore when calling it a disorder.
 
There are many reasons why I don't choose homosexuality. I described my fear of social consequences and my fear of an identity crisis (also a social consequence) in an earlier post. I know, I know. You would say that I MUST be a bisexual or maybe a closet homosexual, living as a heterosexual. I would agree with the former, because as I said before, I *believe* we can change orientation/attraction... and that makes us bisexuals.

Projecting your own 'sexual fluidity' onto everyone else, at best. I can assure you that not everyone is like this.
 
No I don't think its a choice. I think its a mental disease and should be treated as such.

And you, obviously know nothing about this issue.
 
I think its a disorder you are born with...dunno if it can be fixed or not. Just like my son was born with high functioning autism aka Aspergers he had no choice in that...just born that way and yet its a mental disorder and hopefully we can help him. Same goes for homosexuality.

It has been proven to not be a mental disorder. So, you are wrong.
 
According to the current class of doctors/mental health folks no...before the 70's yes it was considered so but a huge influx of liberals into the fields changed it. Aspergers used to be considered a condition in and of its self now its considered high functioning autism,all because they decided to change it like snapping their fingers...to easy to change things.

No, it was declassified as a mental disorder because actual, appropriate research was done and examined. Please get your facts straight.
 
Yes but my point was that if it weren't for the stigma, there would be no need for a 'cure'. It's not inherently harmful. This is what you ignore when calling it a disorder.
It is harmful when these militant activist homosexuals want to push their agenda in schools and politics.
And you, obviously know nothing about this issue.
Opinion

It has been proven to not be a mental disorder. So, you are wrong.
Again opinion
No, it was declassified as a mental disorder because actual, appropriate research was done and examined. Please get your facts straight.
I am correct because it is a mental disorder...shall we examine what else happened around the time homosexuality was supposedly eliminated from being a mental disorder...Lets look at the names of the people involved in doing this...their politics as well...militant communists,jews and liberals.
 
It is always so cute when hysterical people project their delusional fears on to others by calling them mentally ill.

It's like listening to a Sumo wrestler calling somebody fat.
 
There are many reasons why I don't choose homosexuality. I described my fear of social consequences and my fear of an identity crisis (also a social consequence) in an earlier post. I know, I know. You would say that I MUST be a bisexual or maybe a closet homosexual, living as a heterosexual. I would agree with the former, because as I said before, I *believe* we can change orientation/attraction... and that makes us bisexuals.
No...because again bisexuals cannot change their orientation either. A bisexual is someone who is attracted to both men and women. They cannot change their orientation to be attracted to only men or only women. They can, however, choose to be in relationships with only men or women--but who you are in a relationship with does not define your orientation.

That is based on the unproven premise that orientation can't be chosen. But what if it can? Then more of that line of logic collapses. I'm not trying to say that you are wrong and I am right. I'm only discussing what I believe and questioning what you believe.
Fair enough. But I see no reason to believe it is a choice, and I see plenty of reason to believe it is not.

Before posting, I re-read the APA's blurbs on orientation and its causes. Regarding cause, the APA reports that there is no consensus regarding factor(s) that may lead to orientation. The APA also states that "most people experience little or no sense of choice" in the matter. This last sentence, of course is not conclusive proof.

I'm sticking to this topic as long as I have people who read and respond to my ideas. Here's another idea....

Gender equality is on the rise in America. Activities in school that were once segregated are now not. Boys can play dress up and doll house in kindergarten and girls can build block towers and knock 'em down. High school sports are becoming more desegregated. Female place kickers and quarterbacks on the football team. Even if the teams are not integrated, more schools are creating leagues for the girls to play the same sports as the boys, such as lacrosse.

Those are just a few examples. There are plenty of non-examples. But I believe that the trend is toward equality.

Now, assuming that girls can do what boys can do, and vice versa, (Oh! and females are now allowed on navy submarines and their role in combat is expanding) the obvious gender differences (gender, not sex, not biology) are getting smaller. What are some other gender differences besides clothing, haircuts, sports, and toys? Here is my idea...

The romantic love that a man feels for a woman and vice versa was based in large part on gender differences. This romantic love was defined in part by the fact that it was different from male-male camaraderie/loyalty and female-female camaraderie/loyalty. Traditionally speaking, male-male camaraderie is not romantic; is not love. Or is it?

If the gender differences listed above are disappearing/getting smaller, then why can't the same be said of the difference b/w male-male (heterosexual) camaraderie and female-female (heterosexual) camaraderie as compared to male-female romantic love?
How would that explain the prevalence of homosexuality in the past? I think the modern more equal society we are living in is making it easier for gay people to be honest about being gay--I do not think more people are gay as a percentage of a population now than any other time in history.

Here's an example. BTW I'm sorry if I'm not making myself clear. This is a new idea and I'm hearing it for the first time myself. Example: I have a few close friends in life. Male friends. My buds, my bros. Guys I tell every secret to, guys with whom I feel no shame because we know each other for so long and so well. Guys I served with, was deployed with, guys I went to college and grew up with. I am loyal to these guys. I am there when they need me, I do not hesitate to ask them for help. When I walk into a room full of strangers and one of my bros is there, I immediately feel better/relieved. This feeling of relief is very similar to the feeling I get when I meet my wife in a room full of strangers. Likewise, the devotion and loyalty and sacrifices I would make to these guy friends are the same (as far as I can tell) that I would make for my wife.

Can it then be concluded that my love for my guy friends the same as my love for my wife? Now, with gender differences taken into account, you would say no. Guys are just buddies, life-long, throw-theirselves-on-a-grenade-for-you buddies. While women/wives are the ones we get intimate with, write poetry for, go through embarrassing situations with her friends/relatives for, have children with, grow old and die with. Afterall, we are men and they are women and THAT is the difference. But... if gender differences among clothing, haircuts, toys, sports and combat are going away, then shouldn't the distinction b/w feelings for bro's and spouses go away too?

Furthermore, I would share my writing with my bros and be their wingman in any social occasion no matter how embarrassing. So that distinction b/w bro-love and wife-love also disintegrates.

In other words, If all or nearly all gender differences b/w men and women disappear, resulting in men and women fulfilling identical roles in both society and relationships (cooking, cleaning, changing the oil, fixing the garbage disposal) then what remains that separates Bro-Love from Wife-Love?
What remains? Sexual attraction. A straight man will never be turned on by another man's physical appearance. A gay man will never be turned on by a woman's. A lesbian woman will never be turned on by a man's. When a gay man is at a club and sees a hot guy dancing, he does not find him attractive because of some perceived gender role. The gender argument, although interesting and well thought out, does not hold up.
 
No...because again bisexuals cannot change their orientation either. A bisexual is someone who is attracted to both men and women. They cannot change their orientation to be attracted to only men or only women. They can, however, choose to be in relationships with only men or women--but who you are in a relationship with does not define your orientation.

In my opinion, there is only 1 orientation: Bisexual. If this use of the word "orientation" is incorrect, then by all means toss it away. It doesn't have to be used to describe this particular human trait. I'm probably not clear here. What I'm saying is that our definition/use of the word orientation may not apply to the how I believe we really are. Instead, the definition might be reinforcing a misconception and vice versa.

So, with only 1 orientation, heterosexual and homosexual are not orientations at all. The fact that they have been referred to as orientations is only due to the fact that many believe that orientation is distinct and unchangeable.

"Well, gee. Since have clear evidence of male-male sexual/romantic relationships, then we should assign an orientation label to describe these relationships." --"Assuming that this "orientation" can not be changed."

But if it can be changed, then it is no longer an orientation.....? perhaps? Perhaps.




Fair enough. But I see no reason to believe it is a choice, and I see plenty of reason to believe it is not.


How would that explain the prevalence of homosexuality in the past? I think the modern more equal society we are living in is making it easier for gay people to be honest about being gay--I do not think more people are gay as a percentage of a population now than any other time in history.

In America or world-wide?


What remains? Sexual attraction. A straight man will never be turned on by another man's physical appearance. A gay man will never be turned on by a woman's. A lesbian woman will never be turned on by a man's. When a gay man is at a club and sees a hot guy dancing, he does not find him attractive because of some perceived gender role. The gender argument, although interesting and well thought out, does not hold up.

No. the APA says that orientation relates to emotional, romantic AND/OR sexual relationships. In accordance with that, I'm talking only about emotional (and maybe romantic too) relationships. In my argument, sexual attraction is not and does not have to be part of the relationship to indicate orientation.
 
In my opinion, there is only 1 orientation: Bisexual. If this use of the word "orientation" is incorrect, then by all means toss it away. It doesn't have to be used to describe this particular human trait. I'm probably not clear here. What I'm saying is that our definition/use of the word orientation may not apply to the how I believe we really are. Instead, the definition might be reinforcing a misconception and vice versa.

So, with only 1 orientation, heterosexual and homosexual are not orientations at all. The fact that they have been referred to as orientations is only due to the fact that many believe that orientation is distinct and unchangeable.

"Well, gee. Since have clear evidence of male-male sexual/romantic relationships, then we should assign an orientation label to describe these relationships." --"Assuming that this "orientation" can not be changed."

But if it can be changed, then it is no longer an orientation.....? perhaps? Perhaps.
If bisexual is the only orientation, then orientation cannot be changed. What you are saying is that you are bisexual. That is great for you. But to say everyone is bisexual because you are is simply not accurate. There are people who are only attracted to the same sex, and people who are only attracted to the opposite sex.

In America or world-wide?
World-wide. Homosexuality is not American-made. It is a part of humanity.

No. the APA says that orientation relates to emotional, romantic AND/OR sexual relationships. In accordance with that, I'm talking only about emotional (and maybe romantic too) relationships. In my argument, sexual attraction is not and does not have to be part of the relationship to indicate orientation.
The APA also says there exists the orientations of homosexual and heterosexuals, which you deny. So how can you use it as a source? Furthermore, you cannot ignore sexual attraction as if it is not an important aspect of orientation. What you are assuming in your premise is that only emotional attraction exists, and that is not at all what the APA says.
 
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