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Is Homosexuality A Choice?

Is Homosexuality A Choice?

  • Yes

    Votes: 33 15.9%

  • No

    Votes: 136 65.7%

  • Maybe/Don't Know

    Votes: 38 18.4%
  • Total voters
    207
USNavySquid said:
Concentration. Making the conscious effort to ignore my previous ideas about how-a-woman-should-look. Not so that I am attracted to HER (this ugly girl) specifically. Rather, re-writing the "rules" I follow regarding attraction in general. For example, I can consciously decide that acne and an asymmetrical face are OK. Those are just value-based judgments anyway. Values can change. Then, seeing this chic as not-ugly will be easier. Do you agree thus far?
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yes
The only limitations that I can think of, are the will/desire and mental power to pull off such a stunt. But given the accomplishments of the human race to date, I think it is possible. How about you?
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Facial features are one thing, gender is far more fundamental.
I want to suggest to those that think that orientation/attraction is unchangeable, possibly only think so b/c they have not considered the power of concentration and the ease with replacing one value-based judgment with another.
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I don't think you realize that a lot of gay people did consider and attempt this to no avail.
(When I say concentration, I don't mean an image of a buddhist monk trekking to a mountain and making an ice-cold towel on his bareback so hot that it releases steam. Have you seen that discovery channel special? No. I mean just sitting in your recliner and casually thinking about the "other gender" in such a way that it is arousing. Not giving up too soon. If the will to do so is not there, it won't happen. But that doesn't mean its impossible. If the will is there, but it doesn't happen, why can't the reason be something other than: Well it must just be impossible. ?
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I did this for 15 years, how long do I continue to waste my life confusing myself?
 
USNavySquid said:
That's the focal point of our disagreement. I think it can change. You think it can't. If there was conclusive evidence either way, one or both of us would have stopped debating this after only a few posts (depending on how fast the conclusive evidence was brought into the thread.)
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I know it can't, for me at least. I tried, I thought just like you. I Don't want to waste anymore of my life confusing myself.
 
CLAX1911 said:
I disagree, fears are known, are you speaking of phobia?
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No. Not phobia. Let me rephrase because I misspoke. I meant the reasons for our fears are not always known by everyone who experiences a particular fear. I believe we can go through our whole lives and never give the matter of our particular fear of mice any attention. Thus, we get no closer to understanding why we fear them. Give it some attention (<--- a choice) and who knows what we will discover. That goes for any and all aspects of our behavior. in my opinion.
 
USNavySquid said:
No. Not phobia. Let me rephrase because I misspoke. I meant the reasons for our fears are not always known by everyone who experiences a particular fear. I believe we can go through our whole lives and never give the matter of our particular fear of mice any attention. Thus, we get no closer to understanding why we fear them. Give it some attention (<--- a choice) and who knows what we will discover. That goes for any and all aspects of our behavior. in my opinion.
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You are describing a phobia. A fear of something with no rational reason is a phobia.
 
Sorry, but from what I've seen from people I know is that the realization, personal acceptance, and family acceptance of any "non-mainstream" sexual identity often comes hand-in-hand with significant psychological issues such as severe depression, at least initially.

The notion that people have the ability to choose their sexual preference is just ridiculous. I cannot and do not want to change mine and chances are the same is true for you.
 
CLAX1911 said:
You are describing a phobia. A fear of something with no rational reason is a phobia.
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But there are only a certain number of phobias right? (even if that number is 10,000 there are still things that people can be afraid of that do not have there own phobia-name.) So I don't want to limit my point to phobias only.
 
Morrigi said:
Sorry, but from what I've seen from people I know is that the realization, personal acceptance, and family acceptance of any "non-mainstream" sexual identity often comes hand-in-hand with significant psychological issues such as severe depression, at least initially.

The notion that people have the ability to choose their sexual preference is just ridiculous. I cannot and do not want to change mine and chances are the same is true for you.
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The cause of that depression may be due to conflict between one's perceived identity and his/her perception of his environment's expectations/rules. Remove the stigma in society and the depression may never occur. Easier said than done, I know.
 
USNavySquid said:
But there are only a certain number of phobias right? (even if that number is 10,000 there are still things that people can be afraid of that do not have there own phobia-name.) So I don't want to limit my point to phobias only.
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Phobia is an irrational fear, it can be a fear of anything, clowns, stairs, helicopters, you name it. Just because there isn't a clinical name for every possible phobia doesn't mean that it isn't a phobia.

But you were absolutely describing phobia. You stated the definition of phobia in your explanation.

But its okay, that us really psychological jargon. What point were you making?
 
CLAX1911 said:
Phobia is an irrational fear, it can be a fear of anything, clowns, stairs, helicopters, you name it. Just because there isn't a clinical name for every possible phobia doesn't mean that it isn't a phobia.

But you were absolutely describing phobia. You stated the definition of phobia in your explanation.

But its okay, that us really psychological jargon. What point were you making?
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Ok. Agreed on that. My point is still in post 907.
 
USNavySquid said:
I do not think it is wise to use animals to prove something about humans. I agree that humans are animals too and have a multitude of similarities with different animals. Still, saying that something about humans must be true because the animals do it too just doesn't sound like an infallible argument. I'm not saying you are wrong.
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Well I think it's rather infallible when the question is whether or not homosexuality is "natural". I provided examples of when it is naturally occurring, which pretty much ends the subject right there.

As far as whether it's a choice or not, there's no evidence that it is a choice, and boatloads of evidence that it isn't a choice.
 
Child rapin' serial killin' mass murder on a global scale
cats n dawgs living together is natural too so what's yer point again?

If homosexuality is a choice I can't imagine why anyone in their right mind would choose it.
If it isn't then I suppose they 'can't help themselves' and could be thought of as anyone else with a valid claim
to such a thing, hmm like someone born with a birth defect. No one screams at a child that was born
'mentally challenged' and demands that they score 2,400 on the SAT test?
 
AngryOldGuy said:
If homosexuality is a choice I can't imagine why anyone in their right mind would choose it.
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Throughout the history of mankind, people's choices have proven to be near infinitely variable. So have their motivations. Choice is an X factor. It can't be controlled for. I don't think one can say, "Only these choices, these specific choices exist for mankind. No more, no less." No. I think people have the ability, and the lack of restraint, to make lots of different choices.
 
If there's a point in there can I borrow your magnet cuz I can't find that needle in the haystack for the life of me.
I stopped reading your posts pages ago cuz they make no sense to me.
 
AngryOldGuy said:
Child rapin' serial killin' mass murder on a global scale
cats n dawgs living together is natural too so what's yer point again?

If homosexuality is a choice I can't imagine why anyone in their right mind would choose it.
If it isn't then I suppose they 'can't help themselves' and could be thought of as anyone else with a valid claim
to such a thing, hmm like someone born with a birth defect. No one screams at a child that was born
'mentally challenged' and demands that they score 2,400 on the SAT test?
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LOL, holy crap.

You first compare two people being in love with child rape, serial killing and mass murder, then you move on to compare it to being mentally challenged and affirmative action to get "extra points". What extra points are they getting by having the same exact rights you have?

Jesus, you have a lot of hate in you, man, you should see somebody about that.
 
Who should I see?

Did I not list a series of natural human behaviors (ok the cats n dawgs thing was a bit much)
is homosexual behavior natural? Is it solely a choice? (of course engaging in the act is a choice)
Or is the 'desire' inborn just as the 'desire' for heterosexuality is Hmm we might be on to something there eh?
OK fine sex that isn't for procreation is perfectly natural unless you are hetero which means it's normal?
wow I think I'm turning into a Navy Squid there
 
AngryOldGuy said:
If there's a point in there can I borrow your magnet cuz I can't find that needle in the haystack for the life of me.
I stopped reading your posts pages ago cuz they make no sense to me.
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My point was... trying to place value on the reason why someone would make a choice is a waste of time. People have made innumerable choices for innumerable reasons. You said "I can't see why anybody in their right mind would choose it." Trying to judge the validity of a choice is a waste of time. Don't bother trying to see a good or bad reason why some one would choose homosexuality.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
Well I think it's rather infallible when the question is whether or not homosexuality is "natural". I provided examples of when it is naturally occurring, which pretty much ends the subject right there.

As far as whether it's a choice or not, there's no evidence that it is a choice, and boatloads of evidence that it isn't a choice.
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Boatloads of conclusive evidence? The APA says, "Most people report having little or no choice." That's conclusive?
 
RabidAlpaca said:
Well I think it's rather infallible when the question is whether or not homosexuality is "natural". I provided examples of when it is naturally occurring, which pretty much ends the subject right there.

As far as whether it's a choice or not, there's no evidence that it is a choice, and boatloads of evidence that it isn't a choice.
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I think you have to be a bit careful with that logic, because what you are really saying is that everything that occurs in nature should be considered "natural" among humans. Thus, if in nature certain animals kill (part) of their offspring then it should be considered "natural" for human beings to do that too?
I'm not arguing any side here. The question of whether homosexuality is "natural" is pretty irrelevant. But using this sort of reasoning as an argument can lead you to espouse some strange things.

I also believe it is rather difficult to argue that there is evidence that homosexuality isn't a choice and no evidence that it isn't? What sort of evidence is this? How do you explain that people change their sexual orientation or are bisexual?
Again, I'm not arguing one side, but I believe that the sort of absolutist statements you make are pretty wrongheaded.
 
Artevelde said:
I think you have to be a bit careful with that logic, because what you are really saying is that everything that occurs in nature should be considered "natural" among humans. Thus, if in nature certain animals kill (part) of their offspring then it should be considered "natural" for human beings to do that too?
I'm not arguing any side here. The question of whether homosexuality is "natural" is pretty irrelevant. But using this sort of reasoning as an argument can lead you to espouse some strange things.

I also believe it is rather difficult to argue that there is evidence that homosexuality isn't a choice and no evidence that it isn't? What sort of evidence is this? How do you explain that people change their sexual orientation or are bisexual?
Again, I'm not arguing one side, but I believe that the sort of absolutist statements you make are pretty wrongheaded.
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I have stated my belief that orientation is a choice and changeable throughout life. I feel that I can certainly make that choice. The response I get is that I am a bisexual, rather than a person who can change from homosexual to hetero or vice versa. And that bisexual is the 3rd orientation. I feel that our definitions/usage of the word orientation and bisexual could use some updating. I believe everyone can make the choice to change their orientation. In large part because I have seen no conclusive evidence that something within us blocks or precludes us from making such a choice. Another part of the argument is that people can not change which gender they are attracted to. I disagree with that as well, saying that attraction is a function of attention and we can choose to pay attention to anyone/thing we want, and to consider that person/thing in any light/context we want, and we can hold that person/thing in a certain context in our attention long enough to change our views on it.
 
USNavySquid said:
Don't bother trying to see a good or bad reason why some one would choose homosexuality.
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oh ok thx I see your point and find myself agreeing with you. I've known non-lesbian woman that have chosen
to adopt that 'lifestyle' later in life. it was always because of bad past experiences with men in their lives.
 
dang it he's done it agian
RabidAlpaca said:
which pretty much ends the subject right there.
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The issue is decided

Lock the thread we are done here. He's 110% right I could never ever even entertain the idea of doin' it with a guy, ever.
 
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