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Is Homosexuality A Choice?

Is Homosexuality A Choice?

  • Yes

    Votes: 33 15.9%

  • No

    Votes: 136 65.7%

  • Maybe/Don't Know

    Votes: 38 18.4%
  • Total voters
    207
I selected the maybe more as a default than my real opinion. While I do believe that a majority of those who are of any given orientation (gay, straight or bi) are born that way, either by genetics, variables while in the womb or some combination there of. I also believe, through incidental experiences of my own that not everyone is "hardwired" in this manner and thus can "choose". Now I put that word in quotes because the choice might not always be intended or realized. I guess more to point whenever I hear people discuss whether being gay is something you are born with or choose, that the ultimate line is, is it something that occurs prior to birth or do events afterwards form or even change it later in life. I believe that both are possible. It seems to me that too many people are way to invested in the concept that it can only be one or the other.
 
People crack me up over what they believe is and isn't immutable human characteristics. People have no problem with eye color, body sizes, hair color...etc, etc, etc. But it never ceases to amaze me that people deny even the possibility that sexual orientation is simply a mechanism of birth.

Yes...people "DENY THE POSSIBILITY"...that sexual orientation might well be just another immutable human characteristic.

After of all of the things we've seen happen in the last 50 years...man...gezzzzzzzzzzz...
 
Is Homosexuality A Choice?

RESPONSE:

Is being a pervert a choice ?
 
Lakryte said:
Correct. Now please offer studies that support the idea that homosexuality is a choice. I have plenty more examples for you in the post below this one.
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I don't believe that someone could like gay sex without being attracted to men. At the least, someone would find sex with men pleasurable and seek men out to achieve that pleasure. Is that not attraction? I don't have any studies that support the idea that homosexuality is a choice. I do have studies that say that the cause of orientation is not definitively known. I'm arguing what I believe, as I said before. If the APA ever says that homosexuality is not a choice, that will go a long way towards persuading me. I favor the APA because it presents an aggregate view, as opposed to a study here or a study there. Still, individual studies do indeed represent a small sliver of reality, provided they are valid and replicated.

If homosexuality is not a choice, then no one has ever made the choice to be homosexual. -That's hard to prove, in my opinion.

Here's what i have:
American Psychological Association. (2008). Answers to your questions: For a better
understanding of sexual orientation and homosexuality. Retrieved from
http://www.apa.org/topics/sexuality/sorientation.pdf

Frankowski, B. L. (2004). Sexual orientation and adolescents. Pediatrics, 113(6), 1827-1832.
Retrieved from Sexual Orientation and Adolescents

Johnson, R. D. (2003). Homosexuality: Nature or nurture. AllPsych Journal. Retrieved from
Homosexuality: Nature or Nurture in AllPsych Journal
 
I know through experience that it isn't a choice. I didn't want to be gay, I choose heterosexuality for years, it never really worked. You can choose to be a horse, it isn't going to make you into a horse. Yes you can choose to deny your nature and "be heterosexual", but it is an illusion.
 
DaveFagan said:
Go ahead. Go for it. You go right ahead and then let us know how that works out.
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Why don't you prove it is Choice and choose to be gay for a day. I don't even suggest you find a pretty man to have sex with, just get aroused at the idea of being with a man, watch homosexual porn and enjoy it both four entertainment and arousal.

If you can't, proof you can't just choose to be gay.
 
USNavySquid said:
I don't believe that someone could like gay sex without being attracted to men. At the least, someone would find sex with men pleasurable and seek men out to achieve that pleasure. Is that not attraction? I don't have any studies that support the idea that homosexuality is a choice. I do have studies that say that the cause of orientation is not definitively known. I'm arguing what I believe, as I said before. If the APA ever says that homosexuality is not a choice, that will go a long way towards persuading me. I favor the APA because it presents an aggregate view, as opposed to a study here or a study there. Still, individual studies do indeed represent a small sliver of reality, provided they are valid and replicated.

If homosexuality is not a choice, then no one has ever made the choice to be homosexual. -That's hard to prove, in my opinion.

Here's what i have:
American Psychological Association. (2008). Answers to your questions: For a better
understanding of sexual orientation and homosexuality. Retrieved from
http://www.apa.org/topics/sexuality/sorientation.pdf

Frankowski, B. L. (2004). Sexual orientation and adolescents. Pediatrics, 113(6), 1827-1832.
Retrieved from Sexual Orientation and Adolescents

Johnson, R. D. (2003). Homosexuality: Nature or nurture. AllPsych Journal. Retrieved from
Homosexuality: Nature or Nurture in AllPsych Journal
Click to expand...
Gay men have straight sex without being attracted to women. Many do before they come out as gay. The same is true for lesbians. Research is leaning in the direction that homosexuality is not a choice, and there is simply no logical reason to think otherwise--especially when homosexuals themselves explicitly tell people that their sexuality is not a choice, and especially when you have homosexuals committing suicide because they cannot choose to be straight.
 
USNavySquid said:
If homosexuality is not a choice, then no one has ever made the choice to be homosexual. -That's hard to prove, in my opinion.
Click to expand...

It can't be. It isn't a testable hypothesis. Just switch one word in it, and see how absurd it is to even try. "If heterosexuality is not a choice, then no one has ever made the choice to be heterosexual."

Furthermore, there is the possibility that some people do choose to be gay, probably because they are bisexual or are inclined enough to make the choice, but that does not mean ALL people who are gay choose to be gay or that ALL people who are gay could choose not to be gay. Those absolutes are unfounded.
 
DaveFagan said:
Go ahead. Go for it. You go right ahead and then let us know how that works out.
Click to expand...

No need. I've known a straight man or two who has experimented and they came to the conclusion it was not their cup of tea.

I've also known gay men who have gone as far as getting married and having kids, but that has never ended well.

The percentage of gay men and women in a population does not change significantly no matter the acceptance level of a society. That should be indicative that it isn't something people can be easily converted towards.
 
Lakryte said:
Gay men have straight sex without being attracted to women. Many do before they come out as gay. The same is true for lesbians. Research is leaning in the direction that homosexuality is not a choice, and there is simply no logical reason to think otherwise--especially when homosexuals themselves explicitly tell people that their sexuality is not a choice, and especially when you have homosexuals committing suicide because they cannot choose to be straight.
Click to expand...

I hear what you are saying. What are the ... the... mechanisms, if you will, that allow a gay man to have sex and achieve orgasm with a woman before coming out? In other words, how does he get to orgasm without being attracted to the woman? Is it simply a matter of enjoying the friction? That would require him to ignore the thoughts that say "yuck, a woman!" and focus more intently on the physical feedback. This requires that a choice be made. He chooses to suppress his ... distaste, disgust, whatever term.. and focus on the friction, perhaps to ficus on the mental picture of a man. That takes mental power. It starts with a choice.

I sympathize with homosexuals who committed suicide. I disagree that they cannot choose to be straight. If one can Choose to end their life, against all instincts to survive, and preferences to survive, surely one can choose to be gay or straight, which doesn't have (seemingly) as dire consequences as suicide. Of course, I understand that perceptions can be distorted in someone who takes their own life.
 
CriticalThought said:
It can't be. It isn't a testable hypothesis. Just switch one word in it, and see how absurd it is to even try. "If heterosexuality is not a choice, then no one has ever made the choice to be heterosexual."

Furthermore, there is the possibility that some people do choose to be gay, probably because they are bisexual or are inclined enough to make the choice, but that does not mean ALL people who are gay choose to be gay or that ALL people who are gay could choose not to be gay. Those absolutes are unfounded.
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I agree. Wait, no I don't. I don't agree. -necessarily. If some people can choose their orientation and some people can not, what is the difference that exists between the two? A gene?
 
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USNavySquid said:
I hear what you are saying. What are the ... the... mechanisms, if you will, that allow a gay man to have sex and achieve orgasm with a woman before coming out? In other words, how does he get to orgasm without being attracted to the woman? Is it simply a matter of enjoying the friction? That would require him to ignore the thoughts that say "yuck, a woman!" and focus more intently on the physical feedback. This requires that a choice be made. He chooses to suppress his ... distaste, disgust, whatever term.. and focus on the friction, perhaps to ficus on the mental picture of a man. That takes mental power. It starts with a choice.
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Contrary to popular belief, most gay men do not have a disgust for women. And what you think about during sex can be far more arousing than what you are doing while having sex.

I sympathize with homosexuals who committed suicide.
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I would hope so.

I disagree that they cannot choose to be straight.
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That puts you at odds with just about every major medical and mental health organization in the country...but okay. Even the Catholic Church does not make the argument that people can choose to not be gay. People argue you can choose not to act on it, but very few people still argue that gays can choose not to be attracted to members of the same sex. That view puts you in an extreme minority in this country.

If one can Choose to end their life, against all instincts to survive, and preferences to survive, surely one can choose to be gay or straight, which doesn't have (seemingly) as dire consequences as suicide.
Click to expand...

Your reasoning is backwards. They CAN choose to end their life, against all instincts to survive, and preferences to survive and they do so in some cases entirely because they CAN"T choose not to be gay.

Do you get that? It is is so hard for people to change their sexual orientation that it is EASIER for them to kill themselves.
 
CLAX1911 said:
I know through experience that it isn't a choice. I didn't want to be gay, I choose heterosexuality for years, it never really worked. You can choose to be a horse, it isn't going to make you into a horse. Yes you can choose to deny your nature and "be heterosexual", but it is an illusion.
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I wish to suggest alternate conclusions based on your experience. It may only be a matter of the words you chose in your post. If that's the case, then my suggestions may be misapplied. Here they are.... You said it never really worked, but could it have worked if a circumstance or two or three were different? Such as a location, a relative, or anything in your environment that had an influence?

You said that it is an illusion. I think "illusion" is a value-based term. In other words, whether or not it is an illusion is in the eye of the beholder. Of course, this is your experience and you are the expert on it.
 
Sick people don't choose to be sick, example serial killers. Homosexuality is a mental defect, they can't help it.
 
Rocketman said:
Sick people don't choose to be sick, example serial killers. Homosexuality is a mental defect, they can't help it.
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Unfounded. There is no evidence that homosexuality is a "mental defect". It, in and of itself, does not cause loss of functionality in day to day living or distress and those are generally requirements for something to be classified as a mental health problem.

I am gay, I am college educated, work as a counselor providing services to people in need, and I am in a stable and committed relationship with a wonderful man. It is kind of hard to argue that I am "sick" when I am living a pretty good and healthy life. You would need a fairly broad and meaningless definition of "sick" to fit me into it.
 
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CriticalThought said:
And what you think about during sex can be far more arousing than what you are doing while having sex.
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Agreed.


That puts you at odds with just about every major medical and mental health organization in the country...but okay.
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Okay.

That view puts you in an extreme minority in this country.
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Okay.



Your reasoning is backwards. They CAN choose to end their life, against all instincts to survive, and preferences to survive and they do so in some cases entirely because they CAN"T choose not to be gay.

Do you get that? It is is so hard for people to change their sexual orientation that it is EASIER for them to kill themselves.
Click to expand...

Of course you think that. Because you are convinced that people can not choose to be gay. All you did was re-word our argument. Perhaps after I re-worded it. *shrugs*
 
CriticalThought said:
Unfounded. There is no evidence that homosexuality is a "mental defect". It, in and of itself, does not cause loss of functionality in day to day living or distress and those are generally requirements for something to be classified as a mental health problem.
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Homosexuality: The Mental Illness That Went Away

According to the American Psychiatric Association, until 1974 homosexuality was a mental illness. Freud had alluded to homosexuality numerous times in his writings, and had concluded that paranoia and homosexuality were inseparable. Other psychiatrists wrote copiously on the subject, and homosexuality was “treated” on a wide basis. There was little or no suggestion within the psychiatric community that homosexuality might be conceptualized as anything other than a mental illness that needed to be treated. And, of course, homosexuality was listed as a mental illness in DSM-II.

http://www.behaviorismandmentalhealth.com/2011/10/08/homosexuality-the-mental-illness-that-went-away/
 
You'd don't just wake up one day and decide you want to switch your gender preference. There has to be some pre-existing feelings for that to occur. Your entire life you feel one way, you can't just choose to feel the other without at least a tad bit of pre-existing feelings.
 
CriticalThought said:
My guess is epigenetics.

http://www.the-scientist.com/?artic...title/Can-Epigenetics-Explain-Homosexuality-/
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ok. i just looked up epigenetics. my understanding is that the gene expresses a different trait without a fundamental change in the DNA. It expresses a different trait because it has been acted on by a protein. My first question... what caused this protein to act on it? next, if this same protein acts on this same gene in different people, does it produce the same result? If not, why? If not, then this protein-gene relationship is unpredictable. more questions later.
 
USNavySquid said:
Of course you think that. Because you are convinced that people can not choose to be gay. All you did was re-word our argument. Perhaps after I re-worded it. *shrugs*
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Do you think the gays are killing themselves because they have found it easy to change their sexual orientation?

Well let me throw some evidence at you. It is rather convenient that the Ex-Gay Lobby recently decided to throw a big rally in Washington D.C. that they expected thousands of people who left homosexuality to attend. How many do you think actually attended?

D.C. ex-gay rally draws fewer than 10 attendees | The Raw Story

Of all those "thousands" of people who have left homosexuality, all they could muster was 10 people.

And what of organizations that tout that change is possible? We could start with the biggest one...

Ex-gay group Exodus International shuts down, president apologizes | Religion News Service

So...the evidence does not really support your reasoning.
 
USNavySquid said:
ok. i just looked up epigenetics. my understanding is that the gene expresses a different trait without a fundamental change in the DNA. It expresses a different trait because it has been acted on by a protein. My first question... what caused this protein to act on it? next, if this same protein acts on this same gene in different people, does it produce the same result? If not, why? If not, then this protein-gene relationship is unpredictable. more questions later.
Click to expand...

Androgen exposure during fetal development is the hypothesis. Even identical twins can be exposed to differing androgen levels while in the womb.
 
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