View Poll Results: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

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  • Yes

    44 16.99%
  • No

    171 66.02%
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    44 16.99%
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Thread: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

  1. #511
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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    It depends on the person. I've known both men and women who changed their orientation after having a traumatic sexual experience or a relationship that went bad. I've also known a few ex-homosexuals that have changed their orientation as well.

    For some people though they are attracted sexually to people of the same gender or both genders, this isn't chosen but it just happens (most likely developmentally). What most definitely is a choice though is the choice to have homosexual sex.

  2. #512
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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    And then came the Evelyn Hooker study. It found, contrary to what psychiatrists at the time believed, with the best psychiatric instruments they had available to them they could not distinguish between the psychological profiles of the gay and straight men.

    Evelyn Hooker - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    As such, it was removed from the DSM and subsequent studies over the last few decades have confirmed that gay men and women are fully capable of living healthy, functional, and fulfilling lives without being hindered by homosexuality.
    It was voted off the list not proven by science

  3. #513
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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by USNavySquid View Post
    I have to disagree with you. Well, let's be honest. I don't HAVE to, I choose to.

    If what you say about the effects of her trauma are true, then those effects must last forever. No rehabilitation is possible. Is that what you are saying? That the only thing that could "change" her back to her previous orientation would be another sexual assault...?

    I say no. the assualt did not force her to change. she chose to change. the assault was a factor in her decision. the effects of trauma do not last forever with proper treatment.
    I don't really like anecdotal accounts because they are seldom generalizable.

    Bad Dads May Have Led to Women's Hetero-flexibility | LiveScience
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    The economy will improve under this bill. If a few people die, it will be for the betterament of this country.

  4. #514
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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocketman View Post
    It was voted off the list not proven by science
    Every change in the DSM is voted on by the APA. It is a political organization that considers the scientific evidence and then votes. As far as homosexuality, there was not a lot of scientific evidence to put it into the DSM to begin with and that was a major part of the reason it was hard to keep it in once a strong study convinced even some of the most ardent opponents that homosexuality was not a mental health problem.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    The economy will improve under this bill. If a few people die, it will be for the betterament of this country.

  5. #515
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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    What I am saying is that men who have staked their livelihoods and reputations on the claim that homosexuality is changeable, have, after years of trying to do just that with many people, come forward and humbly apologized. Of all the groups that claim such change efforts are possible, NONE have come forward with empirical evidence to support their claims. In fact, the most commonly cited empirical studies of the so called "gay cure" have been recanted.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/19/he...anted=all&_r=0

    So what I am saying is there is little to no empirical evidence to support the notion that such change efforts are possible, but there is considerable empirical evidence that such change efforts are harmful. And of the anecdotal evidence offered by the ex-gay lobby, there is considerably more coming from the thousands of people who have been harmed by these efforts.
    I do not dispute the lack of empirical evidence in either of our claims. Aside from our discussion, I am highly interested in identifying the reasons why we draw the conclusions we draw. It fascinates me. We like to think that the conclusions we draw are based on fact. We continue to turn events around in our mind until we figure out an explanation that makes sense. Some conclusions we draw are indeed based on fact, but at the same time, they do not account for other conclusions, based on the same facts, that are different. Here is where we get to the subjectivity, the Why.

    Until we are able to accept that a conclusion may be possible even though it is not the particular one we have turned around in our minds and felt comfortable with, then we must accept the fact that we are biased. As discomforting and betraying to our awesome selves as that may be. I am not saying we should accept the possibility that the sky is not blue. That is an objective fact. stand alone-ish. I'm saying that in the absence of objective facts, we should not take our comforting conclusions too seriously. If we do, then why?

    That to me is critical thinking, at least in part.

    I conclude that orientation is a choice. I have turned it in my mind and I am comfortable with it. I understand and do not dispute that there are people who say it is not a choice. I do not dispute that people were said to have killed themselves b/c of their orientation. I dispute why. I dispute the conclusion.

    if the suicide letter says, "I hereby kill myself b/c i am homo in a hetero environment." I will not dispute that that is what the person believes. How could I? No. I will dispute his/her assumption that his/her orientation could not change... and therefore, the Only option was suicide. The person drew that conclusion and acted on it. I dispute the conclusion.

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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    I don't really like anecdotal accounts because they are seldom generalizable.

    Bad Dads May Have Led to Women's Hetero-flexibility | LiveScience
    That doesn't make them untrue.

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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Every change in the DSM is voted on by the APA. It is a political organization that considers the scientific evidence and then votes. As far as homosexuality, there was not a lot of scientific evidence to put it into the DSM to begin with and that was a major part of the reason it was hard to keep it in once a strong study convinced even some of the most ardent opponents that homosexuality was not a mental health problem.
    Prove it, so far you haven't.

  8. #518
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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by USNavySquid View Post
    That doesn't make them untrue.
    I do not doubt there are people who claim they were straight and claim they are now gay. I also do not doubt there are people who claim they were gay and they are now straight. What I doubt is how fixed they were in their orientation to begin with given that a small percentage of humans seem to have exceptionally high sexual flexibility. It has been proposed that the individuals who are most certain that change efforts are possible are people with a bisexual orientation who assume that everyone is like them and can choose which sex to focus their attention towards.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    The economy will improve under this bill. If a few people die, it will be for the betterament of this country.

  9. #519
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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocketman View Post
    Prove it, so far you haven't.
    Actually, I did. I'm walking anecdotal evidence. I also pointed out a good study. You are the one who has failed to provide any evidence.

    Nothing can really be proven about homosexuality in the empirical sense because it would require that people be made into homosexuals or heterosexuals in a laboratory setting where all variables could be controlled and causation could be established. That would not be ethical.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    The economy will improve under this bill. If a few people die, it will be for the betterament of this country.

  10. #520
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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by USNavySquid View Post
    I am highly interested in identifying the reasons why we draw the conclusions we draw.
    I would like to point out it was you who ultimately drew a conclusion that change from a homosexual orientation is possible.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    The economy will improve under this bill. If a few people die, it will be for the betterament of this country.

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