View Poll Results: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

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  • Yes

    44 16.99%
  • No

    171 66.02%
  • Maybe/Don't Know

    44 16.99%
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Thread: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

  1. #501
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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    I'll start with saying that while I don't think it is the majority of the cases, that it can be a choice for some people. I wouldn't call it the same as bisexuality, and with the one or two that I know who are claiming choice, I can't put my finger on what it is that makes it different, but I can tell that it is. Not very scientific I know but take it for what it's worth.

    Quote Originally Posted by USNavySquid View Post
    I hear what you are saying. What are the ... the... mechanisms, if you will, that allow a gay man to have sex and achieve orgasm with a woman before coming out? In other words, how does he get to orgasm without being attracted to the woman? Is it simply a matter of enjoying the friction? That would require him to ignore the thoughts that say "yuck, a woman!" and focus more intently on the physical feedback. This requires that a choice be made. He chooses to suppress his ... distaste, disgust, whatever term.. and focus on the friction, perhaps to ficus on the mental picture of a man. That takes mental power. It starts with a choice.
    Desire and attraction are independent of the mechanics that allow orgasm. A male can be raped with no desire for the rapist (male or female) and achieve an orgasm, just like a female can. It's part of what causes the trauma and self recrimination. The idea that only desire will allow an orgasm therefore they must have desired to be raped.

    Quote Originally Posted by USNavySquid View Post
    I agree. Wait, no I don't. I don't agree. -necessarily. If some people can choose their orientation and some people can not, what is the difference that exists between the two? A gene?
    Why does a given result have to have only one cause? Whether I go out in the rain or I stand under a sprinkler, I'm getting wet either way. Same result, different causes.

  2. #502
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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Do you think the gays are killing themselves because they have found it easy to change their sexual orientation?

    Well let me throw some evidence at you. It is rather convenient that the Ex-Gay Lobby recently decided to throw a big rally in Washington D.C. that they expected thousands of people who left homosexuality to attend. How many do you think actually attended?

    D.C. ex-gay rally draws fewer than 10 attendees | The Raw Story

    Of all those "thousands" of people who have left homosexuality, all they could muster was 10 people.

    And what of organizations that tout that change is possible? We could start with the biggest one...

    Ex-gay group Exodus International shuts down, president apologizes | Religion News Service

    So...the evidence does not really support your reasoning.
    Evidence. While I don't dispute that fewer than 10 people showed up, I dispute, perhaps, the reason why.


    I don't dispute that the president of Exodus said certain words-- president Alan Chambers released a statement apologizing to the gay community for many actions, including the organization’s promotion of efforts to change a person’s sexual orientation.

    However, I dispute, perhaps, the reason why you think he said those words.

    You are assuming, if i may be so bold, that these two pieces of evidence are clear indications that orientation can not be changed/is not a choice. I am saying that is not necessarily so because there may be other reasons why what happened... happened. Critical thinking means questioning everything.

  3. #503
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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocketman View Post
    Homosexuality: The Mental Illness That Went Away

    According to the American Psychiatric Association, until 1974 homosexuality was a mental illness. Freud had alluded to homosexuality numerous times in his writings, and had concluded that paranoia and homosexuality were inseparable. Other psychiatrists wrote copiously on the subject, and homosexuality was “treated” on a wide basis. There was little or no suggestion within the psychiatric community that homosexuality might be conceptualized as anything other than a mental illness that needed to be treated. And, of course, homosexuality was listed as a mental illness in DSM-II.

    http://www.behaviorismandmentalhealt...hat-went-away/
    And then came the Evelyn Hooker study. It found, contrary to what psychiatrists at the time believed, with the best psychiatric instruments they had available to them they could not distinguish between the psychological profiles of the gay and straight men.

    Evelyn Hooker - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    As such, it was removed from the DSM and subsequent studies over the last few decades have confirmed that gay men and women are fully capable of living healthy, functional, and fulfilling lives without being hindered by homosexuality.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    The economy will improve under this bill. If a few people die, it will be for the betterament of this country.

  4. #504
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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Androgen exposure during fetal development is the hypothesis. Even identical twins can be exposed to differing androgen levels while in the womb.
    Okay. Nothing conclusive with regard to our debate, right?

  5. #505
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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by iacardsfan View Post
    You'd don't just wake up one day and decide you want to switch your gender preference. There has to be some pre-existing feelings for that to occur. Your entire life you feel one way, you can't just choose to feel the other without at least a tad bit of pre-existing feelings.
    I'm going to disagree with you here. My sister's orientation changed after being sexually assaulted.

  6. #506
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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post
    Not very scientific I know but take it for what it's worth.
    That is open-minded. I appreciate that.



    Desire and attraction are independent of the mechanics that allow orgasm. A male can be raped with no desire for the rapist (male or female) and achieve an orgasm, just like a female can. It's part of what causes the trauma and self recrimination. The idea that only desire will allow an orgasm therefore they must have desired to be raped.
    I agree. desire and attraction can be separated from a preset of conditions that result in orgasm. so if they can be separated, what conditions remain? -that is what i was asking. my answer is that it takes concentration. starting with a choice. We are not slaves to attraction. we can turn it on and off.



    Why does a given result have to have only one cause? Whether I go out in the rain or I stand under a sprinkler, I'm getting wet either way. Same result, different causes.
    I agree. I wasn't intending to say that only 1 cause always exists for this or that result.

  7. #507
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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by USNavySquid View Post
    Evidence. While I don't dispute that fewer than 10 people showed up, I dispute, perhaps, the reason why.


    I don't dispute that the president of Exodus said certain words-- president Alan Chambers released a statement apologizing to the gay community for many actions, including the organization’s promotion of efforts to change a person’s sexual orientation.

    However, I dispute, perhaps, the reason why you think he said those words.

    You are assuming, if i may be so bold, that these two pieces of evidence are clear indications that orientation can not be changed/is not a choice. I am saying that is not necessarily so because there may be other reasons why what happened... happened. Critical thinking means questioning everything.
    What I am saying is that men who have staked their livelihoods and reputations on the claim that homosexuality is changeable, have, after years of trying to do just that with many people, come forward and humbly apologized. Of all the groups that claim such change efforts are possible, NONE have come forward with empirical evidence to support their claims. In fact, the most commonly cited empirical studies of the so called "gay cure" have been recanted.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/19/he...anted=all&_r=0

    So what I am saying is there is little to no empirical evidence to support the notion that such change efforts are possible, but there is considerable empirical evidence that such change efforts are harmful. And of the anecdotal evidence offered by the ex-gay lobby, there is considerably more coming from the thousands of people who have been harmed by these efforts.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    The economy will improve under this bill. If a few people die, it will be for the betterament of this country.

  8. #508
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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post
    I'm going to disagree with you here. My sister's orientation changed after being sexually assaulted.
    While I can see what you mean, it wasn't her choice to get sexually assaulted, therefore I don't consider it a choice to change orientation. She suffered through something extremely traumatic. While I'm a guy, I can imagine if I was raped (as a woman) , it would be difficult to have sexual intercourse with a male again. While she might not have had that orientation before her assault, she still didn't just decide she wanted to switch, something traumatically forced her to change. So in a sense you are right because it is possible for people not to have pre-existing feelings that end up switching, but something traumatic like an assault isn't exactly a choice either. I see it as more of her mind and body going through self-preservation.

    Glad she is ok though
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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by iacardsfan View Post
    While I can see what you mean, it wasn't her choice to get sexually assaulted, therefore I don't consider it a choice to change orientation. She suffered through something extremely traumatic. While I'm a guy, I can imagine if I was raped (as a woman) , it would be difficult to have sexual intercourse with a male again. While she might not have had that orientation before her assault, she still didn't just decide she wanted to switch, something traumatically forced her to change. So in a sense you are right because it is possible for people not to have pre-existing feelings that end up switching, but something traumatic like an assault isn't exactly a choice either. I see it as more of her mind and body going through self-preservation.

    Glad she is ok though
    I have to disagree with you. Well, let's be honest. I don't HAVE to, I choose to.

    If what you say about the effects of her trauma are true, then those effects must last forever. No rehabilitation is possible. Is that what you are saying? That the only thing that could "change" her back to her previous orientation would be another sexual assault...?

    I say no. the assualt did not force her to change. she chose to change. the assault was a factor in her decision. the effects of trauma do not last forever with proper treatment.

  10. #510
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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by USNavySquid View Post
    Okay. Nothing conclusive with regard to our debate, right?
    Oh gosh no. While there appears to be strong evidence to a biological component to homosexuality, it is far from conclusive as to whether that is the major cause or even if it is the only cause.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    The economy will improve under this bill. If a few people die, it will be for the betterament of this country.

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