View Poll Results: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

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  • Yes

    44 16.99%
  • No

    171 66.02%
  • Maybe/Don't Know

    44 16.99%
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Thread: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

  1. #431
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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by AliHajiSheik View Post
    I thought you were still debating Merriam-Webster on the definition of homosexuality.

    Not really interested in your gay friends. I accept that they believe their homosexuality is innate and wish them well. My assertion remains unchanged that for at least some people it has been a choice even if it is a small minority. You have no evidence that this isn't true either.
    You only need to point to the prison system to prove that is the case. There are plenty of men in prison who are not gay but who engage in a lot of gay sex.
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  2. #432
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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    Okay. hmmm... what do you think about this information? (In no particular order but none later than 2008)

    Sexual Orientation: In The Brain - CBS News

    Not much here. My early sex encounters were with smokers and I find a sexual stimulation still in women smokers. That surprised me. It's the smell related back to pleasure sensing regions of the brain from history. Sex with black women smells different and I like it.

    Sexual orientation and its basis in brain structure and function

    Everything in this article is new to me. Very interesting. How would you do this testing on newborns?

    Brain Study Shows Differences Between Gays, Straights - Washington Post

    "Is there such a thing as a "gay brain"? And, if so, are some people born with brains that make them more likely to be homosexual? Or do the brains of gay people develop differently in response to experiences?" "Moreover, the new work involved adults, meaning there is no way to know with certainty when the structures and connections formed and why."

    The same questions unanswered in the preceding study.

    BBC NEWS | Health | Scans see 'gay brain differences'

    Seemed to be a news article on link number two. Nothing new.

    Gay Myths: 2 Bits Of Misinformation Debunked : Healthy Living : Medical Daily

    "Abstract


    There is still uncertainty about the relative importance of genes and environments on human sexual orientation. One reason is that previous studies employed self-selected, opportunistic, or small population-based samples. We used data from a truly population-based 2005-2006 survey of all adult twins (20-47 years) in Sweden to conduct the largest twin study of same-sex sexual behavior attempted so far. We performed biometric modeling with data on any and total number of lifetime same-sex sexual partners, respectively. The analyses were conducted separately by sex. Twin resemblance was moderate for the 3,826 studied monozygotic and dizygotic same-sex twin pairs. Biometric modeling revealed that, in men, genetic effects explained .34-.39 of the variance, the shared environment .00, and the individual-specific environment .61-.66 of the variance. Corresponding estimates among women were .18-.19 for genetic factors, .16-.17 for shared environmental, and 64-.66 for unique environmental factors. Although wide confidence intervals suggest cautious interpretation, the results are consistent with moderate, primarily genetic, familial effects, and moderate to large effects of the nonshared environment (social and biological) on same-sex sexual behavior."
    This was the twin study referenced. I don't think the article agrees with the Twin Study. I used the Minnesota Twin Registry.


    Neuroscience and sexual orientation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    As always, WIKI is thorough and seems to include all the above info.

    From my paper Works Cited


    Alarcon, Maricela, DeFnries, J. C, and Light, Jacquelyn Gillis. "A Twin Study of

    Mathematics Disability Journal ofLearning Disabilities. Nov/Dec 1997. 617-23.

    Cameron, Paul, and Cameron, Kirk. "Did the APA Misrepresent the Scientific Literature

    to Courts in Support of Homosexual Customers Journal of Psychology- May

    1997. 313-32.

    Cameron, Paul, and Cameron, Kirk. "Homosexual Parents". Adolescence. Winter 1996.

    757-76.

    Colt, George Howe. "Were You Born That Way?". Life. April 1998. 38-42.

    Hershberger, Scott L. "A Twin Registry Study of Male and Female Sexual Orientation".

    The Journal of Sex Research. 1997. 212-22.

    Jones, Stanton L. "The Incredibly Shrinking Gay Gene". Christianity Today. Oct. 1999.

    53.

    Shapiro, Joseph P. "Kids With Gay Parents". U.S. News & World Report. Sept. 1996. 75-

    6.

    Simonen, Riitta L, Videman, Tapio, and Battie, Michele C. "The Effect of Lifelong

    Exercise On Psychomotor Reaction Time: a Study of 38 Pair of Male

    Monozygotic Twins. Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise. Sept. 1998.

    1445-50.

    Sloan, Irving J. "Homosexual Conduct and the Law". Ed. Irving J. Sloan. Oceana

    Publications. London/Rome/New York. 1987.

    Viegas, Jennifer. "Nature, Not Nurture". ABCNE WS. com. April 14, 2000.

    http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/D...morOO0414.html.

    Wilson, Emma. "Textuality and (homo)Sexuality in Tournier's Les Meteores". Romanic

    Review. Jan. 1995. 115-27.

  3. #433
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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    As always, WIKI is thorough and seems to include all the above info.

    From my paper Works Cited


    Alarcon, Maricela, DeFnries, J. C, and Light, Jacquelyn Gillis. "A Twin Study of

    Mathematics Disability Journal ofLearning Disabilities. Nov/Dec 1997. 617-23.

    Cameron, Paul, and Cameron, Kirk. "Did the APA Misrepresent the Scientific Literature

    to Courts in Support of Homosexual Customers Journal of Psychology- May

    1997. 313-32.

    Cameron, Paul, and Cameron, Kirk. "Homosexual Parents". Adolescence. Winter 1996.

    757-76.

    Colt, George Howe. "Were You Born That Way?". Life. April 1998. 38-42.

    Hershberger, Scott L. "A Twin Registry Study of Male and Female Sexual Orientation".

    The Journal of Sex Research. 1997. 212-22.

    Jones, Stanton L. "The Incredibly Shrinking Gay Gene". Christianity Today. Oct. 1999.

    53.

    Shapiro, Joseph P. "Kids With Gay Parents". U.S. News & World Report. Sept. 1996. 75-

    6.

    Simonen, Riitta L, Videman, Tapio, and Battie, Michele C. "The Effect of Lifelong

    Exercise On Psychomotor Reaction Time: a Study of 38 Pair of Male

    Monozygotic Twins. Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise. Sept. 1998.

    1445-50.

    Sloan, Irving J. "Homosexual Conduct and the Law". Ed. Irving J. Sloan. Oceana

    Publications. London/Rome/New York. 1987.

    Viegas, Jennifer. "Nature, Not Nurture". ABCNE WS. com. April 14, 2000.

    http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/D...morOO0414.html.

    Wilson, Emma. "Textuality and (homo)Sexuality in Tournier's Les Meteores". Romanic

    Review. Jan. 1995. 115-27.
    YOU CITED PAUL CAMERON! THAT IS THE BASIS FOR YOUR ARGUMENT! PAUL CAMERON!


    The American Psychological Association (APA) launched an investigation into Cameron after receiving complaints about his work from members.[3][4] The APA President Max Seigel sent Cameron a letter on December 2, 1983 stating that the Board of Directors had decided to drop him from membership for failure to cooperate with their investigation.[22] FRI has contended that Cameron had already resigned from the organization in November 1982, citing correspondence from before his formal expulsion.[23] In a letter published in the March 1983 edition of the APA Monitor, Cameron stated that his reasons for leaving included his opinion that the organization was becoming more of a "liberal PAC" than a professional society.[24] The APA, however, does not allow the resignation of a member who is the subject of an ethics investigation.[25] An APA spokesperson told The Boston Globe in 2005, "We are concerned about Dr. Cameron because we do believe that his methodology is weak."[4]

    In 1984 the Nebraska Psychological Association issued a statement disassociating itself "from the representations and interpretations of scientific literature offered by Dr. Paul Cameron".[4] In 1986 the American Sociological Association passed a resolution stating, “The American Sociological Association officially and publicly states that Paul Cameron is not a sociologist, and condemns his consistent misrepresentation of sociological research.”[26] This was based on a report from the ASA's Committee on the Status of Homosexuals in Sociology, which summarised Cameron's inflammatory statements and commented, "It does not take great analytical abilities to suspect from even a cursory review of Cameron's writings that his claims have almost nothing to do with social science and that social science is used only to cover over another agenda. Very little of his work could find support from even a bad misreading of genuine social science investigation on the subject and some sociologists, such as Alan Bell, have been 'appalled' at the abuse of their work."[27] In 1996, the Board of Directors of the Canadian Psychological Association approved a position statement disassociating the organisation from Cameron's work on sexuality, stating that he had "consistently misinterpreted and misrepresented research on sexuality, homosexuality, and lesbianism".[28]
    Paul Cameron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Seriously, the moment you posted a works cited that included his work you completely destroyed your own credibility.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    The economy will improve under this bill. If a few people die, it will be for the betterament of this country.

  4. #434
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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    I had a few acquaintances at work who were openly gay. One was having lunch with a co-worker that I frequently had lunch with, and the 3 of us had lunch. The gay person said he had no choice in the matter, and only a fool would choose to be gay and subject himself to the ridicule and judgement of society, and that made sense to me. He said he knew he was different as a child. He said within 15 minutes he knew if a man was gay.

    I voted "no", not a choice.

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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Please provide the evidence, not the anecdotal evidence, but the actual evidence you have to support your view that homosexuality is the result of child molestation.

    Since you are sharing your credentials, I will share mine. I have a Masters Degree in Social Work, and while I was specializing in Clinical Social Work, I emphasized Child Welfare. I would absolutely love to see the evidence you have to back up your claims. Because, to be perfectly frank, I think you are full of crap.

    The onus would be upon you to provide the links to the counter argument. Be my guest.

  6. #436
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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by USNavySquid View Post
    I agree with your first 2 sentences in the quote. You have asserted that like and attracted to are different. So that means one could like gay sex but not be attracted to men. Is that correct?
    Correct. Now please offer studies that support the idea that homosexuality is a choice. I have plenty more examples for you in the post below this one.
    Last edited by Lakryte; 06-30-13 at 11:44 PM.
    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."
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  7. #437
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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by AliHajiSheik View Post
    I thought you were still debating Merriam-Webster on the definition of homosexuality.

    Not really interested in your gay friends. I accept that they believe their homosexuality is innate and wish them well. My assertion remains unchanged that for at least some people it has been a choice even if it is a small minority. You have no evidence that this isn't true either.
    Nope. It was agreed that equivocation was going on when giving that definition, so the debate ended.

    The evidence is that gay conversion therapy has been exposed as fraudulent, straight camps as failures, and I have never heard a single gay person say it was a choice. Is it conclusive? No. But I don't see a single reason to believe homosexuality is a choice for anyone. Not a single person who has asserted that has given any evidence to support that claim.

    And then there is what most scientists seem to believe:
    "40 years of study indicates homosexuality is not a personal choice."
    "There is ongoing research to determine intrinsic human physiology as causation because modern science is leaning toward prenatal chemistry, genetic and hormonal factors even dominant primitivism as the underlying X factor for LBG. The old argument of nature vs. nurture is taking a backseat and current thinking is the choice of sexuality is innate to human nature as eye color. What is known is most people experience little or no choice in sexual orientation."

    A 2005 study reported genetic scans showing a clustering of the same genetic pattern among gay men on three chromosomes - chromosomes 7, 8, and 10. The regions on chromosome 7 and 8 were associated with male sexual orientation regardless of whether the man got them from his mother or father. The regions on chromosome 10 were only associated with male sexual orientation if they were inherited from the mother.

    Some more information:
    Homosexuality is Not a Choice | Truth Wins Out

    So yes, I have plenty of evidence. Your turn. Or is your ignorance the only evidence we need?
    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."
    "When we live authentically we create an opportunity for others to walk out of their dark prisons of pretend into freedom."

  8. #438
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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by USNavySquid View Post
    Yikes. This has turned nasty.

    The point that conversion therapy failed is a weak point. They could have failed for reasons that have nothing to do with the changeable-ness or unchangeable-ness of orientation. We are Both repeating the same arguments. We are both clinging.

    What other examples besides the conversion camps did you give?
    I think the point is that people go to great lengths to change their sexuality. Given the very low/zero success rate, whether it's technically a choice or not is kind of irrelevant, because fighting it only does harm in the end. In this sense, it is different from switching to coffee or getting off drugs, which happen all the time.

  9. #439
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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    It appears to me that you chose not to read the posts, or cherry picked through whatever you did read. You would have gotten answers to some of your comments before making them here.

    In any case population control through sexual behaviors is not uncommon in the Animal Kingdon. But this is not the sole method used in nature to retard over-population. As populations grow over-pollution occurs, living space shrinks, starvation, conflict, and cannibalism can occur. Evolution does bear this out.

    We, as a species, have been able to slow down and temporarily prevent some of the normal processes through the use of our technologies. However, that will not last forever as long as we continue to allow our population to grow. The earth is already suffering depletions, whole species have disappeared from our oceans and life-less zones are increasing in it. I could go on, but that is off the point.

    I am not saying my theory is correct, but it is based upon some valid research and seems to be more rational than just your naked "opinion" and anecdotal examples. I've NEVER met a homosexual who said it was a choice, EVER in my 56 years. I also met and known quite a few. But that doesn't influence my theory because that's merely anecdotal too and I don't factor it in.
    I admit that I did not go back and read your posts.

    Call my assertions anecdotal or whatever but theorizing that behavior that promotes no sexual reproduction as a evolutionary weapon against over population of a species is a hard sell.

    In nature homosexuality isnt as what we think of being gay. The many examples of homosexual animals are what is called non-exclusive homosexuality. That means that they still mate with the opposite sex but raise the offspring is a same sex relationship. Breeding then still occurs. And such things are not uncommon for humans as well. SO really there isnt a measurable impact of there existing homosexuals in nature attributed to slowing the reproduction rate of a species.

  10. #440
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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Obviously, there is an underlying biochemistry involved in sexual orientation. Perhaps not so obvious, this underlying biochemistry is not an either/or manifestation in regards to a fixed sexual orientation. Rather, it appears that sexual orientation lies along a psychobiological continuum which floats upon an underlying biochemistry. Thus, some homosexuals are more homosexually oriented than others, just as some heterosexuals are more heterosexually oriented than others. This explains the phenomenon of bisexuality, as well as the much less than 100% correlation of sexual orientation in identical twins.

    To make a long story short, sexual orientation can be a matter of choice for some people but not for others. It all depends upon a number of biochemical, psychobiological, and psychosocial variables.
    It's like you're dreaming of Gorgonzola when it's clearly Brie time, baby. Step into my office.

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