View Poll Results: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

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  • Yes

    44 16.99%
  • No

    171 66.02%
  • Maybe/Don't Know

    44 16.99%
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Thread: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

  1. #411
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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    The intelligent and honest answer would be "I don't know" since there is no hard evidence one way or another.
    The evidence in favor of a naturalistic origin for homosexuality in the majority of humans whom are homosexual is nigh overwhelming. That we have only begun to plumb the brain and that the field of neurobiology is still in it's nascent stages is no reason to foist choice as a religious excuse for this question---there is no evidence for it. Are the roots of homosexuality likely multi-causal and deeply fascinating? Yes, just like with so many human behaviors and traits! But pretending that we haven't ruled out 'choice' as a general cause is ridiculous.

    I'll post what I had in another thread:

    There are in fact plenty of theories and proposed explanations, and we are learning more every day due to advances in genetics and evolutionary biology. I'll list a few of the existing theories, bearing in mind these are short summaries:

    1. The most prominent genetically based theory that exists today comes from research conducted earlier this year which gathered some evidence indicating that homosexuality may be related to a gene passed down matrilineally which relates to female fecundity and as a result may only have a tangential relationship as it increases the reproductive value of females by making them more attractive to males and relaxed to increase child bearing potential. It is a mistake to assume that selection pressures always produce reasoned or 'good' results, they are often completely unrelated to the gene that causes it. In this case the hypothesis is that it is an unanticipated balancing act of evolution, a common theme.

    Factors Associated with Higher Fecundity in Female Maternal Relatives of Homosexual Men - Camperio Ciani - 2012 - The Journal of Sexual Medicine - Wiley Online Library
    Male Homosexuality Can Be Explained Through A Specific Model Of Darwinian Evolution, Study Shows

    2. Another common theory relates to pre-natal hormones and the impact that this has on human sexuality, as observed in both humans and test subjects like Rhesus Monkey's. In essence the idea being that in a small but predictable portion of the population (2-3%) differing hormonal balances affect the development of the fetal brain and contribute to the development of homosexuality. So the presence or absence of certain levels of testosterone, androgens, etc. This may or may not be related to the genetic argument made above.

    Homosexuality and Biology - Chandler Burr - The Atlantic (a section discusses thus)

    3. It may also have its relationship in several hypothesized evolutionary advantages that include anything from kin selection to advantages in actually acquiring a mate. For example a common theme in the animal world is observing animals that engage in homosexual behavior (usually among animals that have relatively exclusive sexual patterns) who will then in turn in the absence of other males mate with a female. Termed popularly the 'sneaky ****er' rule by some evolutionary biologists it is the idea that males who fall on some spectrum of homosexuality can evade their more aggressive male contenders who will dismiss them as rivals and instead will mate when the other males are away. This allowed homosexuality to perpetuate.

    These are only a few theories mind you, but there is reams of literature on the subject and it is an emerging field with new discoveries and revelations constantly coming to the fore.

    Edit: Also Epigenetics is probably pretty important alongside regular genetic reasons. It is widely believed that there is multiple biological causality for homosexuality and that it is what helps result in the spectrum we see.

  2. #412
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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by USNavySquid View Post
    But in the hypothetical, the co-ed said "I find her attractive." How was the co-ed supposed to know at that time that when the semester ended she'd be back to guys? As far as she knew at the time, lesbianism was the course of her life.

    You don't have evidence either ( I can't believe I have to resort to that statement. I apologize for being petty.) Like I said, the first sentence in 378 answers both our assertions. Or do you know something the APA does not?
    Well if she said she was attracted to both girls and guys, then obviously she is bi. Your scenario is silly, and can never prove anything or even serve as a logical tool.

    Reading more than the first sentence of that posts suggests that homosexuality is not a choice. Again, do you have any studies that suggest it is a choice? I'm not asking for a definitive conclusive answer to the question, as your strawman keeps suggesting. I am just asking for any shred of evidence to back up your claim. You still have none.
    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."
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  3. #413
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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by USNavySquid View Post
    Well our disagreement is focused on whether we can choose our attractions. I say we can choose to pay attention to something, to think about it in a certain light (to think about having sex with it and spending the rest of our lives with it fulfilled, for example) and that those thoughts increase attraction from 0 to whatever.

    In the previous semester, Mary sat right next to our honest co-ed and no spark occurred. Of course, I'm adding to (altering perhaps you would say) the hypothetical but that shouldn't matter b/c the addition to it that i'm making doesn't make it less likely to occur in real life. in my opinion.
    You don't have to be attracted to someone to be in a relationship with them, as countless homosexuals who have entered straight relationships will tell you. So your hypothetical is useless. Show me a real world and reliable example of someone choosing who they are attracted to. Meaning a straight man choosing to be attracted to men, or a gay man choosing to be attracted to women.
    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."
    "When we live authentically we create an opportunity for others to walk out of their dark prisons of pretend into freedom."

  4. #414
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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by USNavySquid View Post
    If you like gay sex, you must be attracted to it.
    If you like gay sex, you are not necessarily gay. Having gay sex does not mean you are gay. Period.

    If in the next few posts you don't offer any actual evidence of your baseless opinions, I will just end this conversation and accept your failure to provide evidence as resignation.
    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."
    "When we live authentically we create an opportunity for others to walk out of their dark prisons of pretend into freedom."

  5. #415
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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by USNavySquid View Post
    If you like gay sex, you must be attracted to it.
    What about gay men who don't like gay sex? I've known a few.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    The economy will improve under this bill. If a few people die, it will be for the betterament of this country.

  6. #416
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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    To be clear, are you either a psychiatrist or psychologist? Or are you saying that you took some psychology courses in college while pursuing a different degree?

    I'm not asking for "credentials" I am simply trying to determine if my question should be "why do you disagree with your peers?" or "what makes you think the majority of trained professionals in both fields are wrong?"

    I'm neither a Psychologist nor a Psychiatrist. I did take all the Psychology courses available and graduated overall top 1-2%. One of the reasons I did the research was because all of the Academic Community automatically and without any proof held the opinion that gay was genetic. I have gay relatives, gay friends and gay acquaintances and know a great deal about their lives because I'm old and have a prodigious memory. It is the reason I state several circumstances that led to "gay" orientation. I did the best research I was capable of and used the best databases available to the College. I'm had worked Research before attending this school and consider myself competent in that area. Data collection, collation and analysis are something I do well. I have a bachelors Computer/Networking related degree so I also know my way around a computer. I hope I have answered your question/s. As regards the professors holding the opinion that gay is genetic, I always felt they desired to demonstrate their open mindedness and somewhat liberal bents by being out front of the curve on the matter , again without proof. I think they have erred.

  7. #417
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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    I'm neither a Psychologist nor a Psychiatrist. I did take all the Psychology courses available and graduated overall top 1-2%. One of the reasons I did the research was because all of the Academic Community automatically and without any proof held the opinion that gay was genetic. I have gay relatives, gay friends and gay acquaintances and know a great deal about their lives because I'm old and have a prodigious memory. It is the reason I state several circumstances that led to "gay" orientation. I did the best research I was capable of and used the best databases available to the College. I'm had worked Research before attending this school and consider myself competent in that area. Data collection, collation and analysis are something I do well. I have a bachelors Computer/Networking related degree so I also know my way around a computer. I hope I have answered your question/s. As regards the professors holding the opinion that gay is genetic, I always felt they desired to demonstrate their open mindedness and somewhat liberal bents by being out front of the curve on the matter , again without proof. I think they have erred.
    Thanks, it was kind of you to go into such detail and I appreciate both the effort and the information.

    Okay, so it appears that the question should be: what makes you think now, at the present time, that the majority of trained professionals in both psychiatry and psychology are wrong about sexuality not being a choice?

  8. #418
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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    Thanks, it was kind of you to go into such detail and I appreciate both the effort and the information.

    Okay, so it appears that the question should be: what makes you think now, at the present time, that the majority of trained professionals in both psychiatry and psychology are wrong about sexuality not being a choice?
    How about because they still offer no proof. Genetics would be proof positive. Currently it is proof negative. I was guest lecturer in two Abnormal Psychology courses and explained what I have on the forum, but with greater detail about the individuals I was personally privy to pre-puberty and adolescent behavior.
    Last edited by DaveFagan; 06-30-13 at 08:45 PM.

  9. #419
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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    Doesn't have to be every case, so I have no idea why you're even making that argument. Either way, there's no reason to outlaw non-violent behavior.
    lol What? I can think of dozens of non violent behaviors that are outlawed at this moment.

    But no, homosexuality isn't a choice. Gays can't just flip over to the other side anymore than a straight person can make himself gay.
    You said here that homosexuals do not have a choice, that they are homosexual and thats that. You also are asserting that heterosexuals are stuck being heterosexuals and have no choice in the matter. And now you are saying that it doesnt have to be in every case? So which is it then, gays and straights cant flip sides or some can?

    Either way I believe that I made my point. That at least in some cases sexuality is a choice.

  10. #420
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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    I'm neither a Psychologist nor a Psychiatrist. I did take all the Psychology courses available and graduated overall top 1-2%. One of the reasons I did the research was because all of the Academic Community automatically and without any proof held the opinion that gay was genetic. I have gay relatives, gay friends and gay acquaintances and know a great deal about their lives because I'm old and have a prodigious memory. It is the reason I state several circumstances that led to "gay" orientation. I did the best research I was capable of and used the best databases available to the College. I'm had worked Research before attending this school and consider myself competent in that area. Data collection, collation and analysis are something I do well. I have a bachelors Computer/Networking related degree so I also know my way around a computer. I hope I have answered your question/s. As regards the professors holding the opinion that gay is genetic, I always felt they desired to demonstrate their open mindedness and somewhat liberal bents by being out front of the curve on the matter , again without proof. I think they have erred.
    Show us the data. If you went through all that work, then you must have some cited information to back up your point of view.

    By the way...since you are so proficient in this area, could you please state the basis for proving causation?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    The economy will improve under this bill. If a few people die, it will be for the betterament of this country.

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