Is Homosexuality A Choice?

MaggieD said:

Kids are always looking for ways to make their marks . . . to be different . . . to stand out. Some choose to stand out by being the tough guy or the gal who puts rings in her tongue or some other outlandish way of expressing themselves. I think that some young people decide being gay or bi- is but another way of standing out from the crowd. JMVHO.

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Not when it comes to the act. Not really. As I said, there is a spectrum. But actual attraction is not something you can go too far with.

radcen said:

The single biggest fail in questions like this is in presuming there is a "one size fits all" answer. The human species is way too complex for that.

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As I said, there's a spectrum.

radcen said:

Is a woman who chooses to live in a committed relationship with another woman, because she's sick and tired of being treated like crap by men, gay? Or, is she straight and just sleeping with another woman?

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Only she would know and maybe even she couldn't tell you yah or nay......

Give you an example - I had a friend (a guy) whom briefly "turned gay" because of an obsessive chick he was in a prior relationship with. Mind you, this chick stalked him everywhere and was a real pro - so he started hating all women because of her and tried the same sex to cope. Through some talk therapy, he dealt with his fear of women and came back to dating the opposite sex. So yea, I guess anything's possible....

Nightrider said:

Only she would know and maybe even she couldn't tell you yah or nay......

Give you an example - I had a friend (a guy) whom briefly "turned gay" because of an obsessive chick he was in a prior relationship with. Mind you, this chick stalked him everywhere and was a real pro - so he started hating all women because of her and tried the same sex to cope. Through some talk therapy, he dealt with his fear of women and came back to dating the opposite sex. So yea, I guess anything's possible....

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And this illustrates my point about the human species being too complex for a simplistic answer. People have a myriad of reasons for doing what they do. I have no doubt that most gay people are born that way, but to suggest it's exclusive is naive (if not arrogant), IMO.

Also, to the point in my other post, when questions comes up like this maybe we should first define "gay". Is it the attraction solely, or is it the attraction combined with the action, or is it the action solely?

Paschendale said:

Then they're not choosing. They're experimenting and discovering what they truly are. It's like trying several different flavors of ice cream. You like one more than the others. And then you eat more of that one.

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Yeah, I went back re-read the original posts and see that what I originally thought I read was off.

Removable Mind said:

Anybody have statistics on the sexual orientation outcome of children raised by gay parents? After all...role modeling is a real effect of parenting.

My bet...NO...gay parents don't in anyway influence their child's sexual orientation.

If that's a good bet...then I'm betting that sexual orientation...is simply a product of wiring at birth.

However, I'm not claiming that environmental homosexuality doesn't exist. I don't doubt that it does. But I believe that environmental sexual orientation effects...are the exception and far from the rule.

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I think it was "Cameron" and indicated about 33% of the children raised in a homosexual household were homosexual. The parents claimed it was genetic, the study indicated it to be environmental. That is all I know.

radcen said:

Is a woman who chooses to live in a committed relationship with another woman, because she's sick and tired of being treated like crap by men, gay? Or, is she straight and just sleeping with another woman?

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That's a good example of "environmental homosexuality". It happens, but not the rule. And I think you're right...the human species is too complex to understand all things..."for now". But it's inevitable that the origin of sexuality will be discovered.

I'm no spring rooster, but I think that sexual orientation will be scientifically unraveled in my lifetime. A lot of homosexuals don't want that to happen because if it is proven that sexual orientation is more related to wiring...then they fear genetic engineering will eventually be used to control sexual orientation.

Technology is moving at exponential rates.

DaveFagan said:

I think it was "Cameron" and indicated about 33% of the children raised in a homosexual household were homosexual. The parents claimed it was genetic, the study indicated it to be environmental. That is all I know.

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Interesting. Who is Cameron?

radcen said:

And this illustrates my point about the human species being too complex for a simplistic answer. People have a myriad of reasons for doing what they do. I have no doubt that most gay people are born that way, but to suggest it's exclusive is naive (if not arrogant), IMO.

Also, to the point in my other post, when questions comes up like this maybe we should first define "gay". Is it the attraction solely, or is it the attraction combined with the action, or is it the action solely?

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I had another friend whom was asexual - according to him, he was attracted to both sexes, yet he had sex only with himself. So (like I said), he was asexual, not homosexual or hetero or anything but....

Look, I'll be frank - to me, homosexuals are those whom ACTIVELY engage in same sex relations. Heterosexuals actively engage with the opposite sex and so on, bisexuals with both and so on.... That was, at least, the way I was educated. And yes, I have known people who (for one reason or another) have had sex with the same sex, yet ended up straight and vice versa....

So, for the most part anyway, I guess I agree with you (this is a complex issue about a complex race called humans)....

Let me ask you something, though: Do you think we'll ever be able to get along as a society? I understand perfectly where most people are coming from on this - both the yaysayers and the naysayers. It does seem, however, that very few understand where people like me are coming from.....

I will answer my own question - I just don't know.

Thanks for bringing this stuff up.

Baralis said:

Perhaps everyone hasn't had the life you have experienced. Now Im not trying to advocate one way or they other. I just like to keep an open mind and not paint anything in black and white.

An acquaintance of mine has struggled his entire life with his sexual identity. As a boy from a very early age he was molested by his father, a father that was physically and verbally abusive, a father that never showed any love, affection, or caring for him except when it was time to preform sexual favors. During these times his father showed attention, seemed to care, spoke positively, and was kind (Im sure to get what he wanted). He wanted his father to love and care about him just as any of us do. So he started to relate the molestations with love and almost looked forward to these moments as the rest of the time he was largely ignored or abused in other ways. Eventually these times of love (it seemed to him) began to arouse him possibly for abnormal mental reasons (desire for love and affection as he saw it) and he started to enjoy these molestations.

Once he got older and realized the full extent of what was being done to him he was appalled by it. As you can imagine he had many physiological issues as a result. However one link remained, he saw love as a sexual joining of males. He tried for years to have relationships with women but always felt they could not fill the void that was filled by the sex during his childhood. He eventually proclaimed his homosexuality.

Now does this mean he was not born gay? We have no way of knowing one way or the other but it seems plausible that the events if his life may have influenced his sexual outlook perhaps even to the point of complete reversal.

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The question is not if one is born gay but if it's a choice, which nothing in your story, tragic though it is, indicates that it was.

Nightrider said:

I had another friend whom was asexual - according to him, he was attracted to both sexes, yet he had sex only with himself. So (like I said), he was asexual, not homosexual or hetero or anything but....

Look, I'll be frank - to me, homosexuals are those whom ACTIVELY engage in same sex relations. Heterosexuals actively engage with the opposite sex and so on, bisexuals with both and so on.... That was, at least, the way I was educated. And yes, I have known people who (for one reason or another) have had sex with the same sex, yet ended up straight and vice versa....

So, for the most part anyway, I guess I agree with you (this is a complex issue about a complex race called humans)....

Let me ask you something, though: Do you think we'll ever be able to get along as a society? I understand perfectly where most people are coming from on this - both the yaysayers and the naysayers. It does seem, however, that very few understand where people like me are coming from.....

I will answer my own question - I just don't know.

Thanks for bringing this stuff up.

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So the 40 year old virgin was asexual before he had sex? I don't think so. One's sexual orientation has nothing to do with who they have sex with and everything to do with who they are attracted to.

I get where you are coming from--its just wrong. What you were taught is wrong. People were talk blacks were inferior, and that was just as wrong.

Gardener said:

I would think that any heterosexual who believes homosexualty is a choice test out their theory by choosing homosexuality for a little while to see how well that works out for them.

Should be an easy matter if there is anything to their opinion.

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They already make the choice every day.

Nightrider said:

I had another friend whom was asexual - according to him, he was attracted to both sexes, yet he had sex only with himself. So (like I said), he was asexual, not homosexual or hetero or anything but....

Look, I'll be frank - to me, homosexuals are those whom ACTIVELY engage in same sex relations. Heterosexuals actively engage with the opposite sex and so on, bisexuals with both and so on.... That was, at least, the way I was educated. And yes, I have known people who (for one reason or another) have had sex with the same sex, yet ended up straight and vice versa....

So, for the most part anyway, I guess I agree with you (this is a complex issue about a complex race called humans)....

Let me ask you something, though: Do you think we'll ever be able to get along as a society? I understand perfectly where most people are coming from on this - both the yaysayers and the naysayers. It does seem, however, that very few understand where people like me are coming from.....

I will answer my own question - I just don't know.

Thanks for bringing this stuff up.

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Not completely, no. I think we can improve and get better, but as far as a total and complete coexistence... no. And it comes back to the complexities of people. People are, for good or for bad, irrational beings. Again, for good or for bad, I believe too many people fear "different", and feel threatened by it. As far as the "born gay" issue it even comes out in those who emphatically insist they are without exception... it threatens their sense of how clear and neat they would prefer the world to be.

of course not :shrug:

and this is true for the super vast majority
for the minority they are some level of BI and bounce back between the two or switch
for the super vast minority maybe they do make a choice and i would say that they simply have no sexuality or another type of sexuality


i know i had no choice (cant have it both ways) in me being hetero and of the many gays i know they all say the same thing, they had no choice either, they knew at a young age they were different and that the society and social so called norms didnt make sense to them and they couldnt relate to them

Nightrider said:

This isn't about whether one is for or against gay marriage.....

Simply vote and discuss whether you believe that homosexuals have a choice in the matter, or were simply born that way, with no choice whatsoever.

Please be courteous - thanks in advance.

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I believe a small percentage of homosexuals might have been born gay. As for everyone else? It's a string of immoral choices that lead to their sexual preferences.

Dooble said:

I believe a small percentage of homosexuals might have been born gay. As for everyone else? It's a string of immoral choices that lead to their sexual preferences.

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How do you come to this? What empirical evidence do you have?

Dooble said:

I believe a small percentage of homosexuals might have been born gay. As for everyone else? It's a string of immoral choices that lead to their sexual preferences.

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Yes, because most people would love to choose to be ostracized and ridiculed by the rest of society while being legally prevented from marrying those whom they love :roll:

The correct answer to this question is remembered, not discussed.

First, I need to remember when I chose to be straight. If I manage to jar that memory loose, my answer will be yes. So until then...

StillBallin75 said:

Yes, because most people would love to choose to be ostracized and ridiculed by the rest of society while being legally prevented from marrying those whom they love :roll:

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If only homosexuals could see past their own perverseness ....

Lakryte said:

So the 40 year old virgin was asexual before he had sex? I don't think so. One's sexual orientation has nothing to do with who they have sex with and everything to do with who they are attracted to.

I get where you are coming from--its just wrong. What you were taught is wrong. People were talk blacks were inferior, and that was just as wrong.

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Do you understand? Maybe, maybe not....

What I'm saying is it's possible to be attracted to a certain person of a certain sex, yet HAVE NO DESIRE to have sex with said person. AND I'm tired of lies that the PC establishment sells to people. The bs kids are taught in schools, for instance. Oh, and what about the recent decision by the boy scouts of America? Laughable! From what I recall, I didn't know WHAT I was when I was in boy scouts - I was too busy being a KID! No wonder kids are leaving the boy scouts in large numbers these days....

It's beyond stupid.... As long as you understand that 95% of what you have stored in your head is a flat out lie, then you understand me.... I'll go out on a limb and say you probably don't. Thanks anyway.

Nightrider said:

Do you understand? Maybe, maybe not....

What I'm saying is it's possible to be attracted to a certain person of a certain sex, yet HAVE NO DESIRE to have sex with said person. I'm tired of lies that the PC establishment sells to people. The bs kids are taught in schools, for instance. Oh, and what about the recent decision by the boy scouts of America? Laughable! From what I recall, I didn't know WHAT I was when I was in boy scouts - I was too busy being a KID! No wonder kids are leaving the boy scouts in large numbers these days....

It's beyond stupid.... As long as you understand that 95% of what you have stored in your head is a flat out lie, then you understand me.... I'll go out on a limb and say you probably don't. Thanks anyway.

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You are right, maybe or maybe not. Help me understand. Attraction, however, is not the same thing as "desire to have sex." And homosexuality is about attraction. I'll tell you something from experience. I'm gay, but when I was young I wanted nothing more than to be straight and normal like everyone else. When I found myself attracted to certain guys, I immediately did everything I could to avoid them, hoping it would make me straight. It didn't. I had a girlfriend for three years, hoping she would somehow change my attractions. She didn't. I prayed every night for God to make me straight. He didn't. So you bet I get the distinction. But never was I straight in those moments. I was always gay. The attraction was always there, no matter how unbelievably strong my desire was for it to go away forever.

So now I've moved on. And you can say my head is full of lies, but the only lies I ever let in were the lies that I was somehow wrong. The lies that I was not really gay when I was all along. Is everything I believe true? Probably not. Hell, undoubtedly not. Which is why I've changed my political opinions more than once. I'm open to the fact that I am wrong and others are right. How about you? You seem so certain that 95% of what I have in my head is a lie (how'd you even get in there!?). How much stored in your head is a lie? How about you tell me those ideas since I can't read your mind and we can see who still clings to lies.

Lakryte said:

You are right, maybe or maybe not. Help me understand. Attraction, however, is not the same thing as "desire to have sex." And homosexuality is about attraction. I'll tell you something from experience. I'm gay, but when I was young I wanted nothing more than to be straight and normal like everyone else. When I found myself attracted to certain guys, I immediately did everything I could to avoid them, hoping it would make me straight. It didn't. I had a girlfriend for three years, hoping she would somehow change my attractions. She didn't. I prayed every night for God to make me straight. He didn't. So you bet I get the distinction. But never was I straight in those moments. I was always gay. The attraction was always there, no matter how unbelievably strong my desire was for it to go away forever.

So now I've moved on. And you can say my head is full of lies, but the only lies I ever let in were the lies that I was somehow wrong. The lies that I was not really gay when I was all along. Is everything I believe true? Probably not. Hell, undoubtedly not. Which is why I've changed my political opinions more than once. I'm open to the fact that I am wrong and others are right. How about you? You seem so certain that 95% of what I have in my head is a lie (how'd you even get in there!?). How much stored in your head is a lie? How about you tell me those ideas since I can't read your mind and we can see who still clings to lies.

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I didn't realize you were gay...

Reading your post, I'm at a loss for words. AND now I realize something - I don't belong in this forum. I'm about to do something I should have done six years ago and that's ban myself.... Best of luck to you.

Hey mods, what do I have to do to get meself banned?

Yes it is a choice. This is my opinion as a heterosexual. The most frequent response is this...
So, you chose to be straight?
Yes. I did. And I continue to make that choice everyday. I could choose to be homosexual any day.
How did you do that?
Because I look at women, fantasize about them sexually/romantically, and I pay enough attention to them to fall in love with them. All the actions I have just described I can do also to men. But I choose not to. Let's say that in order to prove my point, I decide to become homosexual... tomorrow. I can start the process of that by doing the following...
Looking at men. Fantasizing about them sexually. Paying enough attention and searching until I find one that has traits that I can live with for the rest of my life. There is no internal drive that will stop me from doing any of these things. My eyes aren't going to avert themselves. My mind can imagine anything I put to it- a two-headed elephant or a man's naked body touching mine. You can do it too. There is nothing in my mind that, by default, prevents me from imagining anything.

As far as sexual arousal, that's the easiest part. Turn out the lights, relax your mind, and allow yourself to be touched. You habits and social programming may scream "No" but if you can relax, and of course you can train your mind to relax just like you can tolerate a colonoscopy without punching the doctor, then your mind will "listen" to the pleasure signals that the nerve endings in your skin are sending to your conscious mind. After all, the nerve endings send signals the same regardless of who is touching you. It's not like the nerve endings themselves say... "Whoa! Hold on, that is a man's appendage. Change the signal!" No. The skin doesn't know. Any averse reaction is the product of habit, social programming and identity, which are all temporary and changeable things.

The next response I always get is....
So you're bisexual?
I'm saying we are all bisexuals. We just choose to live as heterosexuals or homosexuals at certain times, or even the whole time. Some people can identify as heterosexual in their teens, have hetero relationships, then years later change to homosexual and have strictly homosexual relationships. And again, years later, in their 40's or 50's, change back to heterosexual. Looking at the entire life span, you would say that person is bisexual. But for those periods of 10-20 years, he/she was either living as a heterosexual OR a homosexual.

Any one can do this. Both love and sexual arousal/attraction are results of how much attention we pay to others. And there is no internal drive that limits how much attention or what kind of attention we pay.

Well I've been gay all my life and no matter how hard I tried to be straight, I just couldn't do it.
My response to that is you did not try hard enough, on a long enough timeline, nor do you open your mind to the possibility of being sexually aroused by a female's touch (allow the skin to send those signals to your conscious mind) nor to the possibility of paying enough attention to a particular woman's traits, and seeing the merits of spending more and more time with her, even falling in love. If you only pay attention to men, of course you will not find a woman you could romantically love. If you don't relax and open your mind to the pleasure, then of course your mind will filter out the signals her fingertips are sending to your central nervous system. "Ew! A woman is touching me! Stop it. I'm gay!"

Nightrider said:

I didn't realize you were gay...

Reading your post, I'm at a loss for words. AND now I realize something - I don't belong in this forum. I'm about to do something I should have done six years ago and that's ban myself.... Best of luck to you.

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Sure you belong here. If we didn't have disagreements this place wouldn't really have a purpose. But if you want to leave, that's your choice.