View Poll Results: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

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  • Yes

    44 16.99%
  • No

    171 66.02%
  • Maybe/Don't Know

    44 16.99%
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Thread: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

  1. #361
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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    That seems a bit too absolute. Or I should say that you are using a black or white logic that dictates that its either this way or no way at all. The problem with absolutes is that they can be proven wrong with simple logic.

    If things were that absolute then there wouldnt be any bisexual people. Perhaps there are people that are born homosexual but that isnt an example of every case.
    However, bisexuality may not be a choice either. In my theory, expressed in post #103, #273, #278, #282, and modified in #355 to adapt "hormonal changes in the womb," it is a population control mechanism, sort of a bridge between heterosexual and homosexual orientations.

    Therefore, the cross-over expression of bisexuality does not have to demonstrate a choice of behaviors by either homosexuals or heterosexuals, but a clear intermediate sexual orientation in and of itself.

  2. #362
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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    However, bisexuality may not be a choice either. In my theory, expressed in post #103, #273, #278, #282, and modified in #355 to adapt "hormonal changes in the womb," it is a population control mechanism, sort of a bridge between heterosexual and homosexual orientations.

    Therefore, the cross-over expression of bisexuality does not have to demonstrate a choice of behaviors by either homosexuals or heterosexuals, but a clear intermediate sexual orientation in and of itself.
    Precisely. Well put.
    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."
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  3. #363
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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by AliHajiSheik View Post
    Too many absolutists posting. If it has been a choice for even one person, your opinion is wrong. That doesn't mean that it is a choice for everyone.
    I agree, because clearly juveniles of all ages engage in experimentation as a learning mechanism. So in pubescent periods (ages 13-15) there is often same-sex contact amongst heterosexual kids of both sexes due to a combination of curiousity, and ease of companionship. But one or two such experiments suffice for a purely heterosexual person. Whereas bisexuals continue the dual activity, and homosexuals continue same sex activity. This does not prove they had a "choice" all along.

  4. #364
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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    I already gave you examples of evidence suggesting homosexuality is not a choice. Gay therapy and straight camps have been proven failures. You are repeating the exact same argument that was already refuted. You have come full circle in your fallacious reasoning, and not once along the way did you offer any type of evidence. Not a single example. You have only baseless assertions. Sorry, that doesn't cut it. Your reasoning is unsound, your evidence is nonexistent, and yet you cling to your beliefs anyway. I call that insanity.
    Yikes. This has turned nasty.

    The point that conversion therapy failed is a weak point. They could have failed for reasons that have nothing to do with the changeable-ness or unchangeable-ness of orientation. We are Both repeating the same arguments. We are both clinging.

    What other examples besides the conversion camps did you give?

  5. #365
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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    That seems a bit too absolute. Or I should say that you are using a black or white logic that dictates that its either this way or no way at all. The problem with absolutes is that they can be proven wrong with simple logic.

    If things were that absolute then there wouldnt be any bisexual people. Perhaps there are people that are born homosexual but that isnt an example of every case.
    Doesn't have to be every case, so I have no idea why you're even making that argument. Either way, there's no reason to outlaw non-violent behavior.
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    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

  6. #366
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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by USNavySquid View Post
    Yikes. This has turned nasty.

    The point that conversion therapy failed is a weak point. They could have failed for reasons that have nothing to do with the changeable-ness or unchangeable-ness of orientation. We are Both repeating the same arguments. We are both clinging.

    What other examples besides the conversion camps did you give?
    Its not a weak point. You said if people pay attention to something they can change their attraction. That is exactly what these camps did, and they failed. Does that mean your position is necessarily wrong? No. But it suggests that it is, and that matters. And still, you have absolutely no evidence that suggests your position is right. Your turn to give examples.
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  7. #367
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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    If I am reading your position correctly (and please let me know if I am wrong) you believe that because child molesters "are frequently people who were molested as children" this results in the development of a metal illness causing them to act out against children themselves. That since (in your opinion) homosexuals have a high frequency history of child molestation (by a male for males and a female for females I presume) this has similarly caused a mental illness compelling them to act out in same-sex relationships?

    We agree on many things, as you know. But I am forced to disagree with your position on this. There is just too much empirical evidence that argues against it, not the least of which is the fact that not all child molesters (or homosexuals) have a personal history of molestation.

    The other information I have addressed in an ongoing debate with "USNavysquid" (see specifically posts #103, #273, #278, #282 in this thread). I never even touched on the recent brain studies showing clear differences in homosexual brains that point not to genetics, but to hormonal changes caused while still in the mother’s womb. This could explain why one of a set of twins exhibits homosexual orientation while the other does not.

    I’m certainly willing to modify my theory by replacing “genetic coding” with a more likely “hormonal changes” premise, while retaining all the other steps (post #103). Either way it indicates homosexulity is neither a choice, nor mental illness.

    Now it is true that “once upon a time” homosexuality was considered a mental disorder but the vast majority of both psychiatrists and psychologists have accepted that it is not. Only a small minority still holdout, and most appear to have a personal agenda for this, i.e. religious beliefs, cultural bias, or just plain stubbornness.
    My position accounts for some of the individuals that are homosexual, by no means all. I do understand the position of the majority of the Psychological Community and I disagree with that. I don't have any agenda that I am aware of, just studied the question because I was in College and it made a good choice for a Research Paper while at the same time providing answers to my own questions on the subject. All I can pass on is the core of what I researched. I will add a note. Any paper that states that gays are not genetic is not well received in the Educational environment.

  8. #368
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    Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    There is a lot of insistence that homosexuality is not a choice. There is, however, no conclusive evidence that some have no choice but we DO have conclusive evidence that some DO engage in homosexuality by choice. That doesn't give us a firm answer on anything but the preponderance of the evidence points to choice and we know for certain that at least some of the time it is a choice.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

  9. #369
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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by USNavySquid View Post
    So that's it? You've had all the foreplay you want and now you want to take me to bed?

    LOL Dude! Sometimes I think you're just in here acting as an agent-provocateur ...you make me laugh too much (as in your jokes not your positions).

  10. #370
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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    Its not a weak point. You said if people pay attention to something they can change their attraction. That is exactly what these camps did, and they failed. Does that mean your position is necessarily wrong? No. But it suggests that it is, and that matters. And still, you have absolutely no evidence that suggests your position is right. Your turn to give examples.
    The examples are few: #1: Bisexuals. #2 Every time we changed a like to a dislike and vice versa. If future research discovers the differences among homo hetero and bi And proves a cause-effect relationship, and if it does so conclusively, I will accept it. Sheesh.

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