View Poll Results: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

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  • Yes

    44 16.99%
  • No

    171 66.02%
  • Maybe/Don't Know

    44 16.99%
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Thread: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

  1. #341
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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    So what approach would you suggest? Those camps and therapists always suggest paying attention to the opposite sex, as you suggest. They suggest not paying attention to the same sex. They try to get people to really think and be attracted to the opposite sex. They seem to do exactly what you are doing. And to top it off, often the people at those camps and therapies sincerely want to change. I can't imagine a better test of whether it is a choice or not.

    Regardless, they do serve as evidence that attraction is not a choice. So your claim "there is no evidence" is false. Where is your evidence that attraction is a choice?
    I don't suggest an approach. I hold lightly to my belief that there shouldn't be "an approach." I dispute your claim that my claim is false. I uphold that failed trials do not prove the opposite hypothesis. If it were another topic, I think you may agree with that notion.

    My evidence that attraction is a choice is as weak as yours is that it isn't. Bisexuals exist. I have heard 1 gay woman, (the president of the local GLYS), in answer to a question, say "I'm gay because I don't do sex with men." Certainly, a man could get her off. Whether she is attracted to the man or not is a choice and that choice is influenced by many factors:

    1) Is there such a thing as homosexuality?
    2) is homosexuality detrimental to my well-being? (ppl choose to do many other things that Are detrimental)
    3) is there opportunity for me to try homosexuality?
    4) am i willing to try? weigh the pros and cons
    5) Am I truly doing this for me?
    6) am i willing to be honest in my attempt despite perceived, possible social consequences? -a key point that may have caused those failed, misguided therapies.
    7) after trying it, do i like and can i sustain the results?

    -Not a comprehensive list.

    A failed attempt by one or 1000 individuals only suggests that all others will also fail.

  2. #342
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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    They do not prove, but they are evidence. You cannot ignore them simply for convenience. Failed experiments are every bit as important in developing accurate theories as successful ones.
    Ok. Then we will argue about what degrees of firmness exist within the classification of "evidence."

  3. #343
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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Used to think it was, but it clearly isn't. You don't have the free will to be straight or gay. You are who you are....I've known people to commit suicide because they thought they were an "abomination" to the world and their religion. It is very sad to see a human being taken to that level of grief...so far that they end it all.
    Libertarian and Atheist...wow I'm a hated man.

  4. #344
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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    How do bisexuals do what? They are attracted to both sexes. They don't "do" anything to be that way. The answer to your question is simple. She is to be defined by the sex or sexes she is attracted to. That she had a bunch of lesbian sexual encounters does not make her homosexual. Nor does marrying a nice guy make her heterosexual, and nor does doing both make her bisexual. Sexuality is not determined by actions.

    How do you know "what" someone is? You can't, really.
    If we can't know what someone really is then how can you say that I'm a bisexual or a repressed homosexual just because I say I can change my attraction? Don't go there. It kills the enjoyment of arguing.

    "Sexuality is not determined by actions." You would say it is determined by something within us. Genes, chemistry, physiology. Until we prove that, we have only actions to go on. No?

  5. #345
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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by davidtaylorjr View Post
    Leviticus 18:22
    New King James Version (NKJV)

    22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination.
    I would venture to bet that the clothing you are wearing right now is also considered an "abomination" by Leviticus. Why is that ok?
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

  6. #346
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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Homosexuality is no more a choice than Heterosexuality is. But even it is was....so what? What makes it anyone's business other than that individual? Why do people have the arrogance to believe that they have any say at all in another person's "choice".
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

  7. #347
    I'm kind of a big deal

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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    I would venture to bet that the clothing you are wearing right now is also considered an "abomination" by Leviticus. Why is that ok?
    best part is he didn't understand he proved himself wrong, there has been nothing he posted that makes homosexuality itself a sin, nothing.
    This space is currently owned by The Great Winchester, stay tuned for future messages!
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  8. #348
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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by USNavySquid View Post
    I don't suggest an approach. I hold lightly to my belief that there shouldn't be "an approach." I dispute your claim that my claim is false. I uphold that failed trials do not prove the opposite hypothesis. If it were another topic, I think you may agree with that notion.

    My evidence that attraction is a choice is as weak as yours is that it isn't. Bisexuals exist. I have heard 1 gay woman, (the president of the local GLYS), in answer to a question, say "I'm gay because I don't do sex with men." Certainly, a man could get her off. Whether she is attracted to the man or not is a choice and that choice is influenced by many factors:

    1) Is there such a thing as homosexuality?
    2) is homosexuality detrimental to my well-being? (ppl choose to do many other things that Are detrimental)
    3) is there opportunity for me to try homosexuality?
    4) am i willing to try? weigh the pros and cons
    5) Am I truly doing this for me?
    6) am i willing to be honest in my attempt despite perceived, possible social consequences? -a key point that may have caused those failed, misguided therapies.
    7) after trying it, do i like and can i sustain the results?

    -Not a comprehensive list.

    A failed attempt by one or 1000 individuals only suggests that all others will also fail.
    Arguing that homosexuality is a choice assumes there is at least one approach that makes that choice possible. You can't say there is no "approach" as that makes no sense. How else would you prove your claim true or false?

    Also, nobody is arguing that failed trials prove the opposite hypothesis. So stop bringing that up, as that was explained to you already. But they do provide evidence to the opposing hypothesis. And that a man can get a lesbian woman off doesn't mean she is attracted to the man. So logically your argument already falls apart.

    1. Yes.
    2. No.
    3. No. You may engage in homosexual activity, but homosexuality is defined by an attraction to the same sex.

    Argument fails.

    Where is the evidence that suggests your hypothesis is true?
    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."
    "When we live authentically we create an opportunity for others to walk out of their dark prisons of pretend into freedom."

  9. #349
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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Actually there is evidence that orientation is immutable. Conversion "therapy" has a near 100 % failure rate as one example. Also note that brain chemistry among gays is clearly different than straight people. One of the problems with finding a cause for how orientation is determined is of course that orientation may depend on a number of factors, with different people having different causes. It is not nearly so straightforward as you are trying to present it.
    What I have heard about conversion therapy I do not support. Please don't throw me in that camp just b/c we disagree.

    Trips to the moon also had a 100% failure rate until the first one that was successful. I'm not saying we should continue to find a successful method of conversion. I detest that. I only make the point to demonstrate the relativity of failure rates.

    I'm not making it any more straightforward than you are trying to make it.

  10. #350
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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by USNavySquid View Post
    If we can't know what someone really is then how can you say that I'm a bisexual or a repressed homosexual just because I say I can change my attraction? Don't go there. It kills the enjoyment of arguing.

    "Sexuality is not determined by actions." You would say it is determined by something within us. Genes, chemistry, physiology. Until we prove that, we have only actions to go on. No?
    If someone only has sex with the same sex and never with the opposite sex, it is reasonable to suggest they are gay. But do we "know" that they are gay? No. We cannot. You can't change your attraction to different sexes if you are homosexual or heterosexual. If you can be attracted to both sexes, then you are bisexual. That's simply the definition of the terms. Nothing worth arguing.

    We have only actions to go on, yes. But those actions do not necessarily prove anything. Now show me your evidence that attraction is a choice.
    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."
    "When we live authentically we create an opportunity for others to walk out of their dark prisons of pretend into freedom."

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