View Poll Results: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

Voters
259. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    44 16.99%
  • No

    171 66.02%
  • Maybe/Don't Know

    44 16.99%
Page 34 of 132 FirstFirst ... 2432333435364484 ... LastLast
Results 331 to 340 of 1318

Thread: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

  1. #331
    Student
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Eastern USA
    Last Seen
    08-13-13 @ 09:04 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    166

    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    That is actually an informed opinion. There is no evidence that one can change their orientation by choosing to do so. I certainly could not choose to be gay. Could you?
    Of course. People say that makes me a bisexual. Again preserving their belief that orientation is unchangeable. There is also no evidence that it is not a choice. I think a lot of researchers are looking for differences in the genes or brain structures or the release of certain hormones during prenatal development among heterosexual and homosexual persons. --in order to prove a cause-effect relationship b/w those differences and the orientation. But what if there are no differences? If it is a lifestyle choice alone, they won't find any differences. They are still looking. That informs my opinion.
    Last edited by USNavySquid; 06-30-13 at 02:33 PM.

  2. #332
    Guru
    Lakryte's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    California
    Last Seen
    06-02-17 @ 01:39 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    2,982

    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by USNavySquid View Post
    Of course. People say that makes me a bisexual. Again preserving their belief that orientation is unchangeable. There is also no evidence that it is not a choice. I think a lot of researchers are looking for differences in the genes or brain structures or the release of certain hormones during prenatal development among heterosexual and homosexual persons. --in order to prove a cause-effect relationship b/w those differences and the orientation. But what if there are no differences? If it is a lifestyle choice alone, they won't find any differences. They are still looking. That informs my opinion.
    The evidence that it is not a choice is that straight camps and therapy have been proven not to work. If people that go to such extremes to "choose" differently and still can't change afterwards, nobody can.
    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."
    "When we live authentically we create an opportunity for others to walk out of their dark prisons of pretend into freedom."

  3. #333
    Student
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Eastern USA
    Last Seen
    08-13-13 @ 09:04 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    166

    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    That attraction can change does not mean you can control it. A gay man may find himself attracted to a man, and then over time lose that attraction, just like any other relationship. But he will only ever be sexually attracted to other men. Even if everyone starts at 0, only men will be able to go above 0. Trust me, I know from experience. Many gays try to push their attractions away. It doesn't work.
    I won't argue with experience. What would really be helpful in research, is if gay men who changed their lifestyle to heterosexual and found fulfillment (or hetero men who changed their lifestyle to homosexual) would participate in more research. Maybe they are. But because we hold so strongly to our beliefs, we are labeling them bisexuals or repressed persons.

    You say many gays try to push their attractions away and it doesn't work. I don't dispute that. i have heard the same thing. But does it hurt to try and find the (few?) people who have done it successfully and ask them about it? And until we have found them or eliminated the possibility that they are out there, can we not entertain the possibility that orientation may still be a choice?

    I think I can control my attraction. Perhaps it is a matter of temperament (another changeable trait). Perhaps if I had the temperament that landed me in prison, that temperament might correspond to the ease in which I achieve gratification with my cell-mate. But since I'm not of that temperament, perhaps the gratification can still be achieved, just not so easily.

    I don't want to fall back on the minor point that "well, it takes more than just sexual gratification to make one a homosexual." Which begs the question... "Why don't we agree on our definitions so we can argue more coherently?" The answer to that.... "well, everyone is different and decides for themselves." Conundrum.

  4. #334
    Student
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Eastern USA
    Last Seen
    08-13-13 @ 09:04 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    166

    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    The evidence that it is not a choice is that straight camps and therapy have been proven not to work. If people that go to such extremes to "choose" differently and still can't change afterwards, nobody can.

    Those are failed attempts. Misguided if I understand their approach correctly. Failed attempts alone don't prove the opposite hypothesis.

  5. #335
    Guru
    Lakryte's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    California
    Last Seen
    06-02-17 @ 01:39 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    2,982

    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by USNavySquid View Post
    I won't argue with experience. What would really be helpful in research, is if gay men who changed their lifestyle to heterosexual and found fulfillment (or hetero men who changed their lifestyle to homosexual) would participate in more research. Maybe they are. But because we hold so strongly to our beliefs, we are labeling them bisexuals or repressed persons.

    You say many gays try to push their attractions away and it doesn't work. I don't dispute that. i have heard the same thing. But does it hurt to try and find the (few?) people who have done it successfully and ask them about it? And until we have found them or eliminated the possibility that they are out there, can we not entertain the possibility that orientation may still be a choice?

    I think I can control my attraction. Perhaps it is a matter of temperament (another changeable trait). Perhaps if I had the temperament that landed me in prison, that temperament might correspond to the ease in which I achieve gratification with my cell-mate. But since I'm not of that temperament, perhaps the gratification can still be achieved, just not so easily.

    I don't want to fall back on the minor point that "well, it takes more than just sexual gratification to make one a homosexual." Which begs the question... "Why don't we agree on our definitions so we can argue more coherently?" The answer to that.... "well, everyone is different and decides for themselves." Conundrum.
    No. The definition of homosexuality is someone who is attracted to the same sex. If you can be attracted to both sexes, you are bisexual by definition. And you cannot choose to be attracted to both sexes. You can influence your attraction for specific individuals, you cannot influence your attraction for a specific sex.
    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."
    "When we live authentically we create an opportunity for others to walk out of their dark prisons of pretend into freedom."

  6. #336
    Guru
    Lakryte's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    California
    Last Seen
    06-02-17 @ 01:39 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    2,982

    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by USNavySquid View Post
    Those are failed attempts. Misguided if I understand their approach correctly. Failed attempts alone don't prove the opposite hypothesis.
    So what approach would you suggest? Those camps and therapists always suggest paying attention to the opposite sex, as you suggest. They suggest not paying attention to the same sex. They try to get people to really think and be attracted to the opposite sex. They seem to do exactly what you are doing. And to top it off, often the people at those camps and therapies sincerely want to change. I can't imagine a better test of whether it is a choice or not.

    Regardless, they do serve as evidence that attraction is not a choice. So your claim "there is no evidence" is false. Where is your evidence that attraction is a choice?
    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."
    "When we live authentically we create an opportunity for others to walk out of their dark prisons of pretend into freedom."

  7. #337
    Student
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Eastern USA
    Last Seen
    08-13-13 @ 09:04 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    166

    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    No. The definition of homosexuality is someone who is attracted to the same sex. If you can be attracted to both sexes, you are bisexual by definition. And you cannot choose to be attracted to both sexes. You can influence your attraction for specific individuals, you cannot influence your attraction for a specific sex.
    Ok. No argument from me regarding the definitions. But how do bisexuals do it? How about the co-ed who decides to explore? For the entire fall semester she could be exploring and have some good times and some bad times. By graduation, she found a nice guy and she thinks he's going to pop the question. She's excited. She sees herself in a monogamous relationship with children and grandchildren and her grave plot beside her husband's. What about her? hetero or bi? chosen or driven/compelled/forced?

    optional scenario: her biographer knows nothing of her fall semester exploration 60 years ago and identifies her as heterosexual (just pretend that's important 60 years from now). Is she to be defined by the majority of her life or all the long-term and short-term episodes that make up her life? I think the answers weigh in on the matter of orientation as a choice.

  8. #338
    Liberal Fascist For Life!


    Redress's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Georgia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:39 PM
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    93,315
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by USNavySquid View Post
    Of course. People say that makes me a bisexual. Again preserving their belief that orientation is unchangeable. There is also no evidence that it is not a choice. I think a lot of researchers are looking for differences in the genes or brain structures or the release of certain hormones during prenatal development among heterosexual and homosexual persons. --in order to prove a cause-effect relationship b/w those differences and the orientation. But what if there are no differences? If it is a lifestyle choice alone, they won't find any differences. They are still looking. That informs my opinion.
    Actually there is evidence that orientation is immutable. Conversion "therapy" has a near 100 % failure rate as one example. Also note that brain chemistry among gays is clearly different than straight people. One of the problems with finding a cause for how orientation is determined is of course that orientation may depend on a number of factors, with different people having different causes. It is not nearly so straightforward as you are trying to present it.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  9. #339
    Guru
    Lakryte's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    California
    Last Seen
    06-02-17 @ 01:39 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    2,982

    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by USNavySquid View Post
    Ok. No argument from me regarding the definitions. But how do bisexuals do it? How about the co-ed who decides to explore? For the entire fall semester she could be exploring and have some good times and some bad times. By graduation, she found a nice guy and she thinks he's going to pop the question. She's excited. She sees herself in a monogamous relationship with children and grandchildren and her grave plot beside her husband's. What about her? hetero or bi? chosen or driven/compelled/forced?

    optional scenario: her biographer knows nothing of her fall semester exploration 60 years ago and identifies her as heterosexual (just pretend that's important 60 years from now). Is she to be defined by the majority of her life or all the long-term and short-term episodes that make up her life? I think the answers weigh in on the matter of orientation as a choice.
    How do bisexuals do what? They are attracted to both sexes. They don't "do" anything to be that way. The answer to your question is simple. She is to be defined by the sex or sexes she is attracted to. That she had a bunch of lesbian sexual encounters does not make her homosexual. Nor does marrying a nice guy make her heterosexual, and nor does doing both make her bisexual. Sexuality is not determined by actions.

    How do you know "what" someone is? You can't, really.
    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."
    "When we live authentically we create an opportunity for others to walk out of their dark prisons of pretend into freedom."

  10. #340
    Liberal Fascist For Life!


    Redress's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Georgia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:39 PM
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    93,315
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by USNavySquid View Post
    Those are failed attempts. Misguided if I understand their approach correctly. Failed attempts alone don't prove the opposite hypothesis.
    They do not prove, but they are evidence. You cannot ignore them simply for convenience. Failed experiments are every bit as important in developing accurate theories as successful ones.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

Page 34 of 132 FirstFirst ... 2432333435364484 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •