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Is Homosexuality A Choice?

Is Homosexuality A Choice?

  • Yes

    Votes: 33 15.9%
  • No

    Votes: 136 65.7%
  • Maybe/Don't Know

    Votes: 38 18.4%

  • Total voters
    207
CLAX1911



and we don't even know it. In my opinion, we are so adamant in our views, and refuse to open up to new ideas because deep down, we are so afraid that the idea will shake the identity we have constructed and maintained for ourselves. That a new idea may challenge the "truth" about who we think we are. And that is terrifying to us. It is the fear of the unknown. "You mean I really don't know myself? After all these years? How can that be? BAH! it's impossible! It's absurd!"

squid you really need to speak for your self. I opened up that new idea, i dated a woman for three damn years, i tried to make it work. I have seen for myself that the truth was there all along. I identified for 8 years as a bisexual man, I tried to be, I didn't just talk, I walked the walk. The new idea was that I was gay, not bisexual. So don't tell me about fear, don't tell me that I am not open to that idea, you think you are the first person to ever come up with it.

My entire world was turned upside down my psyche was hammered with depression euphoria exasperation and then finally profound bewilderment. All my dreams died, everything in my life was chaos. Then I let go of it, instantly i felt peace met the love of my life and simply adjusted to the fact that I did not know myself before now I do, I dreamt dreams better than the old ones found my passion discovered my nature and realized how little I know.

If you just went through that Epiphany I am glad for you. But i don't simply talk about it. My construct was actually challenged. My identity was turned inside out and stood on it's head.

Your crap is a regression for me. Going backward is fatal. I discovered my true self on the brink of the abyss. I was there at the end moments from a miserable death I abandoned my notions of reality, I let go of everything, my opinions my likes and dislikes my reality. I had to it was killing me i was mere seconds away from a self inflected death.

Blinding emotional pain has a tendency to rewrite reality. So save your breath I came to a different conclusion, that's all. Your way is dead wrong I said it a thousand times if i said it once it nearly cost me everything. But if that works for you than go on. Don't sit here and attempt to tell me how outis not when i lived it.
 
ok so he is bi
next...
 
The list of what Christianity has been right about grows shorter by the day.

To be fair, though the Bible does state homosexuality is a sin, it never stated that homosexuality was a choice. That is propaganda pushed by the Evangelical Right.
 
Can you choose to be attracted to a woman who you find incredibly unattractive?

Why not? I do think for myself I am not a slave to instincts. I am attracted to brunets yet I married a blonde. Something about blonde hair just makes me say meh. But my wife has slowly changed my mind. And now her hair is turning grey, which isnt a turn on. But I find my wife very attractive and it has nothing to do with her sex or her looks. If she unfortunately was ina accident with acid or fire and was burned until she looked like a hideous monster nothing would change I would still be attracted to her in the same way that I am now.
 
To be fair, though the Bible does state homosexuality is a sin, it never stated that homosexuality was a choice. That is propaganda pushed by the Evangelical Right.

AH I see why people are all worked up. I stepped into the middle of a existing dispute between extremists that have no rational opinions. They think its either this way or that way nothing in between. How very stereotypical of extremists to ignore the middle ground as if it doesnt exist..
 
squid you really need to speak for your self. I opened up that new idea, i dated a woman for three damn years, i tried to make it work. I have seen for myself that the truth was there all along. I identified for 8 years as a bisexual man, I tried to be, I didn't just talk, I walked the walk. The new idea was that I was gay, not bisexual. So don't tell me about fear, don't tell me that I am not open to that idea, you think you are the first person to ever come up with it.

My entire world was turned upside down my psyche was hammered with depression euphoria exasperation and then finally profound bewilderment. All my dreams died, everything in my life was chaos. Then I let go of it, instantly i felt peace met the love of my life and simply adjusted to the fact that I did not know myself before now I do, I dreamt dreams better than the old ones found my passion discovered my nature and realized how little I know.

If you just went through that Epiphany I am glad for you. But i don't simply talk about it. My construct was actually challenged. My identity was turned inside out and stood on it's head.

Your crap is a regression for me. Going backward is fatal. I discovered my true self on the brink of the abyss. I was there at the end moments from a miserable death I abandoned my notions of reality, I let go of everything, my opinions my likes and dislikes my reality. I had to it was killing me i was mere seconds away from a self inflected death.

Blinding emotional pain has a tendency to rewrite reality. So save your breath I came to a different conclusion, that's all. Your way is dead wrong I said it a thousand times if i said it once it nearly cost me everything. But if that works for you than go on. Don't sit here and attempt to tell me how outis not when i lived it.

I won't argue with your experience. I may argue with your conclusions. "But I lived it" you say. That doesn't mean you completely understand it. That doesn't mean your current understanding of those very real events will not change.

At one time, you understood yourself to be bisexual. You lived it. At that time, you may have strongly disagreed with me if i suggested that you are not bisexual, you are really gay. You might say, "Squid, don't tell me I'm gay like you know me better than I know myself. I have identified as a bisexual for near 8 years now. I have lived it. Stop being absurd."

Flash forward to today. You are now arguing the opposite. Do you see how perceptions change? Do you see that our experiences and our constructed identity change? Who is to say that in another few years, you won't go through another change? Even if you die at age 100 having been gay from now until then, who's to say that at age 101 you would not have experienced another change?
 
AH I see why people are all worked up. I stepped into the middle of a existing dispute between extremists that have no rational opinions. They think its either this way or that way nothing in between. How very stereotypical of extremists to ignore the middle ground as if it doesnt exist..

Not really sure what you are saying here. Could you clarify?
 
Yes and no.
The proclivities one may have for sexual attraction towards the same or opposite gender can not be chosen ... but one can choose to ignore or embrace those proclivities.

If you can ignore those proclivities, do they really exist? do they really have a function? How do you know they exist if they can be ignored? Do you mean that a person can "feel" the proclivity, and then choose to ignore or obey it?
 
Not really sure what you are saying here. Could you clarify?

You mentioned the position of the religious right as claiming an absolute choice in homosexuality. Which is a extremist view of homosexuality. So then the other extremist view would be that there cant be any choice in being homosexual. So if I claim that there is a choice for some people then I am automatically held to the Evangelical Rights argument and position. Next thing people are calling me a religious nut and so on. It wont matter that I am a atheist and that I am not a right winger. The blind will see what they want no matter what I say.

Hence why I said I stepped into the middle of a existing dispute.
 
You mentioned the position of the religious right as claiming an absolute choice in homosexuality. Which is a extremist view of homosexuality. So then the other extremist view would be that there cant be any choice in being homosexual. So if I claim that there is a choice for some people then I am automatically held to the Evangelical Rights argument and position. Next thing people are calling me a religious nut and so on. It wont matter that I am a atheist and that I am not a right winger. The blind will see what they want no matter what I say.

Hence why I said I stepped into the middle of a existing dispute.

I agree, both extremes are wrong. As I mentioned several pages ago, I know some gays who did not choose their sexuality and some who did. However, I do say 'choose to be gay' cautiously, as environment and history have had tremendous impact on those choices.
 
I think you are denying the possibility that the identity you have constructed for yourself, -not just your orientation, now, but rather your entire identity- is partly influenced by factors beyond your conscious awareness.
I think the only reason you posted this is due to your lack of communication skills.

If things are beyond your conscious awareness then you don't have a choice in it for the love of Jesus. yet you insist that you do. Your own statements are contradicting themselves.
I think i have jumped tracks of thought without you.
I think you jumped the tracks with your self.
When I said, "we have preferences", I wasn't referring to sexual orientation preferences. I was speaking more broadly, regarding all the preferences we have. -The preferences that make us contemplate a new idea for a few moments, or dismiss it immediately, for example.
this thread is about sexuality.

Call the Nobel committee you have discovered we have preferences!
To dismiss or contemplate the idea is a choice. But that choice is influenced by our preferences, perhaps without our knowledge.
For example, (and in this example i will use a situation that is relevant to the specific discussion on orientation) "We are all bisexual, he says. But I am not going to contemplate that idea (<--- there is the choice) because I know that I am not bisexual (<--- there is the identity you have constructed for yourself because you are comfortable with it, you have turned it around in your mind, it makes sense, it even seems logical. It is your "preference.")
it is my instinct, not my preference. I contemplated that question for 27 years thank you. You are simply upset because I didn't come to the same conclusion you did. Because I walked the line, I did something instead of talk about it. you apparently crippled by fear to discover this for yourself. I wasn't, I came up with this cockamamie theory two decades before you did I put out through the rigors of not just academia but practice.

If you ever grow the balls to go out and act on the same sex attraction you have then come talk to me about thus school house theory you plagiarized.
That preference influences your choice to be open to my idea. I believe that this phenomena happens in all of us. And I believe that the scarier, or more threatening that a new idea is, the more adamantly people will oppose it if it is against the identity they have constructed for themselves.
the preference influences your choice? Didn't you say you're choice influences your preference earlier. These words are synonyms you choose things because you prefer them. What makes you prefer something?

You idea is old, not new. Sorry Sigmund Freud beat you to that one, then Kinsey hashed with it. You butchered out and created a false absolute.
 
Clearly someone issues with their 'lifestyle choices' :lamo
 
I think the only reason you posted this is due to your lack of communication skills.

If things are beyond your conscious awareness then you don't have a choice in it for the love of Jesus.

I disagree. I can choose something but the reason why I chose it can be beyond my awareness. For example, I thought I chose to start hating black people at age 21 when a black person robbed me. While I accepted that reason for many years, I later discovered, at age 31, that my racism was sown by a professor i had in college at age 20. When I think back to the things that professor said, and my reaction to those things, it is easy to see why i started hated black people after the robbery. Without that professor's influence, I might never have reacted to the robbery the way I did.
 
I won't argue with your experience. I may argue with your conclusions. "But I lived it" you say. That doesn't mean you completely understand it. That doesn't mean your current understanding of those very real events will not change.
I may not understand it, but i have a far better understanding than you in regards to this.
At one time, you understood yourself to be bisexual. You lived it. At that time, you may have strongly disagreed with me if i suggested that you are not bisexual, you are really gay. You might say, "Squid, don't tell me I'm gay like you know me better than I know myself. I have identified as a bisexual for near 8 years now. I have lived it. Stop being absurd."
it was a lie i told myself to ease my tortured mind. The lie was comfortable because out didn't require me to change my understanding.
Flash forward to today. You are now arguing the opposite. Do you see how perceptions change? Do you see that our experiences and our constructed identity change? Who is to say that in another few years, you won't go through another change? Even if you die at age 100 having been gay from now until then, who's to say that at age 101 you would not have experienced another change?
It has never changed, my level of denial has been the only thing to change. As far back as I can remember having a thing for boys i was 12. Thus was prepubecent for me, that change started in my mid teens. I never really felt sexual or even romantic attraction to women/girls. I pretended i did because I WANTED to. I wanted babies and a beautiful wife.

My sexual attraction was always toward male, never female. I forced myself to look at pictures of naked women, i would attempt to imagine women mentally to get off. It never worked.

Even having sex with a woman I never climaxed by that alone, out didn't work i stopped and had to get my mind off of what I was doing to climax.

My sexuality never changed, I lied about it to others but mostly to myself.but it has been constant.
 
I disagree. I can choose something but the reason why I chose it can be beyond my awareness. For example, I thought I chose to start hating black people at age 21 when a black person robbed me. While I accepted that reason for many years, I later discovered, at age 31, that my racism was sown by a professor i had in college at age 20. When I think back to the things that professor said, and my reaction to those things, it is easy to see why i started hated black people after the robbery. Without that professor's influence, I might never have reacted to the robbery the way I did.

Racism is an instinct, we tend to fear people that appear different than us. either in culture or appearance. We have to learn to compensate for that.

But your opinion of black people changed, my sexuality never did. Hi find it highly doubtful that it ever will
 
I may not understand it, but i have a far better understanding than you in regards to this.
it was a lie i told myself to ease my tortured mind. The lie was comfortable because out didn't require me to change my understanding.

It has never changed, my level of denial has been the only thing to change. As far back as I can remember having a thing for boys i was 12. Thus was prepubecent for me, that change started in my mid teens. I never really felt sexual or even romantic attraction to women/girls. I pretended i did because I WANTED to. I wanted babies and a beautiful wife.

My sexual attraction was always toward male, never female. I forced myself to look at pictures of naked women, i would attempt to imagine women mentally to get off. It never worked.

Even having sex with a woman I never climaxed by that alone, out didn't work i stopped and had to get my mind off of what I was doing to climax.

My sexuality never changed, I lied about it to others but mostly to myself.but it has been constant.

Ok. I won't argue with that.
 
Racism is an instinct, we tend to fear people that appear different than us. either in culture or appearance. We have to learn to compensate for that.

But your opinion of black people changed, my sexuality never did. Hi find it highly doubtful that it ever will

Fine, take out the racism example and insert... um, a distaste for ... going to the basement in the dark. I choose to avoid the basement, i just don't know why. I could easily choose to go into the basement, but instead i stay upstairs. I can't identify any particular reason. Then I discovered that the reason I make that choice is bec I was very young and in the basement with my grandpa when he died there.

I'm trying to make the point that we can make choices, but the influences for them are unknown to us.
 
Fine, take out the racism example and insert... um, a distaste for ... going to the basement in the dark. I choose to avoid the basement, i just don't know why. I could easily choose to go into the basement, but instead i stay upstairs. I can't identify any particular reason. Then I discovered that the reason I make that choice is bec I was very young and in the basement with my grandpa when he died there.

I'm trying to make the point that we can make choices, but the influences for them are unknown to us.

That should be 'not always known at the time'.
 
Fine, take out the racism example and insert... um, a distaste for ... going to the basement in the dark. I choose to avoid the basement, i just don't know why. I could easily choose to go into the basement, but instead i stay upstairs. I can't identify any particular reason. Then I discovered that the reason I make that choice is bec I was very young and in the basement with my grandpa when he died there.

I'm trying to make the point that we can make choices, but the influences for them are unknown to us.

You are doing a very poor job of making that point because you know why you didn't like black people or the basement. Fears are simple to understand, fear sevres a purpose.

Sexual orientation isn't a preference that is why you are having difficulty explaining. Nothing In or psyche compares to it.
 
Again I am only asserting that SOME people have a choice not everyone. And who are you to deny someone else their choice?

Here is the problem that you are ignoring: Tom feels that he has no choice that he was born straight. But Tom in the last few years started feeling that he really isnt straight. According to the born only assertion for sexual orientation Tom has been restricted by your argument to feel as if he cant decide now whether he is different than he used to be. This may lead Tom to feel shameful about his feelings and by how the same sex makes him feel.


You mentioned a mechanism, so why dont you show me the mechanism that would make it impossible to decide to be gay or not. What stops a person who has been gay or straight to all the sudden or even over time that they are now opposite.


I am straight Im not bi or want to be gay, but I see no reason why I couldnt change my mind. Do you say that it is impossible for me to change my mind? Why would it be impossible?

You cant know how every human being thinks, you cant with any certainty claim an absolute knowledge that someone cant one day just decide that they are gay or not gay. And all the studies in the world could not deny the possibility that people change their sexual orientation.

For you to argue against my premise that sexuality can be a choice for some people would mean that science knows everything about the human mind. We know a lot but sexuality isnt a subject that we know everything there is to know about it. Since I know more than one person that claims that they can make a choice (myself included) about their sexuality gives me the opinion that your claim isnt substantiated. Until we learn something definite on the matter my opinion is as good as yours.

That's nonsense. If Tom is now feeling he's not straight, it's likely he never was. Think of a spectrum.

As I have said, choice lies in the ability to do both. Only those who can realistically consider both have choice.
 
To be fair, though the Bible does state homosexuality is a sin, it never stated that homosexuality was a choice. That is propaganda pushed by the Evangelical Right.
Correct. And sometimes it is.
 
Ah. ok. But if I had been living as a heterosexual up until I changed, then because they cling to their beliefs, they will not count it so easily as a true change. They will say I was in the closet or a bisexual all along. Someone already said that to me in this thread, page 10-11. -Rather than entertain the idea that orientation is changeable.

Mkst human behavior falls into a "spectrum". In this case, most people are strongly hetero, some are strongly homo, and everybody else falls somewhere in between. Being able to easily go one way or the other would put one in the "middle" of the spectrum, making them "bi" or ambisexual.

I think the "middle" group is where most "psycho-social" gays come from. Various developmental factors tipping them one way or the other.

I don't think a "1" homosexual could be hetero or a "10" hetero could be homosexual.

I still don't think its a conscious "choice" even for the "middles", although I've met gays who appear to be gay as a "fallback". That just gave up on being hetero for one reason or another.
 
Weather you are attracted to the same sex is not a choice Its something determined bye home life and genes like sexuality in general.
 
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