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Is Homosexuality A Choice?

Is Homosexuality A Choice?

  • Yes

    Votes: 33 15.9%

  • No

    Votes: 136 65.7%

  • Maybe/Don't Know

    Votes: 38 18.4%
  • Total voters
    207
AngryOldGuy said:
Well now Clax that is indeed an interesting concept Alan Turing committed suicide 7 June 1954 rather than continue chemical castration as an alternative to prison
and now we have rabid activist homosexuals screaming in our faces that we are monsters for not accepting homosexual Scout Masters? yeah I'm gonna go with bending over backwards.
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I have been bending far more, dealing with crap from the likes of you and suggestions that gay people can't be Scout masters. Some bizarre superstition has dictated so many parts of my life. I can't adopt my child because of your bizarre superstition. So I will be in your face until I crush you. And your crybaby caterwalling falls on deaf ears. If my rights are inconvenient to you I don't Care, you should be inconvenienced for perpetrating your bizarre superstition.

I am not worried you have proven a pathetic adversary. 2 measly percent of the population is capable of pushing hard enough to make you cry and retreat.
 
CLAX1911 said:
And I am not going to. Your failure to communicate us your problem.

Okay i will play this game with you
Post #553 i quoted you.
" Revolutionary isn't it? sorry i'm tired. I'm saying we are all the same as far as we are all bisexual. On top of that lowest common denominator, the choice to live as a bisexual, homo or hetero are the minor differences among us."

Let's see how little sense this makes

Revolutionary isn't it? sorry i'm tired. I'm saying we are all the same as far as we are all bisexual. On top of that (constant of bisexuality) the choice to live as a bisexual, homo or hetero are the minor differences among us.

Living as this or that didn't alter your orientation. I know first hand.
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Why didn't it alter orientation? What is it about orientation that can't be altered? I'm question your underlying assumptions about orientation. I know there is an APA definition of orientation. I also know there are interpretations of orientation. I believe our interpretations are frequently self-serving. We turn ideas around in our mind until we find a version we are comfortable with. I know I do. That's why I try, seriously now, to use phrases like "I believe such in such."



Because your beliefs are absurd.
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Opinion.


I can absolutely prove you are dead wrong. You said everybody, I am somebody, I am not bisexual, being that the trem everybody includes me, that statement is dead wrong.

I don't have to ask everybody to know you are wrong when you say everybody is bisexual. I just need one person to prove that because everybody except one is not everybody.

The problem is that generalization is always wrong therefore they are useless.
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I said I believe everybody is bisexual. I said I believe we all are bisexual. After saying it once, I may have omitted it from any following statements to you. And that may be the reason why you think I am trying to state my beliefs as fact. Sorry. I will try harder to always include phrases like "in my opinion such-in-such, i believe such-in-such.
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TiredOfLife said:
I'm using what's known as Proper English. In that case the default pronoun is Male, meaning he, his, etc. Since God would have no sex, "he" could be whatever "he" damn well chose to be eh?
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I used proper English too. Get your mind out of the phalocentric.
 
TiredOfLife said:
Who? :lol:
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It's amusing how people believe it proves the existence of god somehow. Even more amusing, the guy who theorized its existence was an atheist.
 
winston53660 said:
I used proper English too. Get your mind out of the phalocentric.
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In this country? Good luck.
washington-monument.jpg
 
Forseti said:
It's amusing how people believe it proves the existence of god somehow. Even more amusing, the guy who theorized its existence was an atheist.
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God is like beauty, he's in the eye of the beholder.
 
USNavySquid said:
Agreed. Why? I think he is bisexual because he can choose to live hetero and homo lifestyles, and you think he is bisexual because? My guess is that you think he is bisexual bec bisexual is a separate orientation describing people who are (somehow) attracted to both men and women.
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That is what the word bisexual means.

bi·sex·u·al**

Adjective-Sexually attracted to both men and women.
Noun-A person who is sexually attracted to both men and women.

Its the definition of the word. A bisexual person is a person attracted to both genders. That is what it means
A person that can be attracted to both genders is bisexual, I never argued that. Simply stated that everybody can't do that, I couldn't
 
CLAX1911 said:
So I will be in your face until I crush you
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There you go, your true position has been evident all along.

So tell me if there ever was a 'push back' from the 98% of the population what would it look like?
and what's this adoption thingie of which you speak? I thought raising children was a 'breeder thing'
and honestly you've lost me what 'bizarre superstition' are you referring too?
 
CLAX1911 said:
That is what the word bisexual means.

bi·sex·u·al**

Adjective-Sexually attracted to both men and women.
Noun-A person who is sexually attracted to both men and women.

Its the definition of the word. A bisexual person is a person attracted to both genders. That is what it means
A person that can be attracted to both genders is bisexual, I never argued that. Simply stated that everybody can't do that, I couldn't
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Ok. this will take us on a new line of discussion and also might lead us back to the beginning..... What is it about bisexuals that does not exist in non-bisexuals that allows/enables/triggers/whatever them to be attracted to both genders? If you don't know, that's ok. If you do, great. I don't know. I believe there is nothing that is different b/w bisexuals and non-bisexuals. Why? Bec there is no conclusive, definitive, widely agreed upon evidence there that is a difference. the person who posts here named Criticalthought, linked an article or two on epigenetics, they were insightful, but not proof.

You definition does not say anything about bisexuality being an orientation. but i'll surrender the point. Nor does it say anything about the cause of bisexuality, as in- a life choice or an inherent trait. But that's ok too. It's only a definition.

We agree on the definition. That's a common trait (denominator lol) b/w us. We disagree on the conclusions we draw from that definition.

again, what if anything, exists in bisexuals that distinguishes them from non-bisexuals aside from the fact that they can choose to engage in sexual and ... i don't know.. emotional/romantic relationships with either gender?
 
USNavySquid said:
Why didn't it alter orientation? What is it about orientation that can't be altered? I'm question your underlying assumptions about orientation. I know there is an APA definition of orientation. I also know there are interpretations of orientation. I believe our interpretations are frequently self-serving. We turn ideas around in our mind until we find a version we are comfortable with. I know I do. That's why I try, seriously now, to use phrases like "I believe such in such."
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It didn't change the orientation because the orientation was constantly bisexual. I don't believe it is possible to alter the orientation. It isn't necessary for a person with the orientation of bisexual to alter it to switch between men and women. Bisexual means that the person is sexually oriented to both. That never changed. Since our species sex is binary a bisexual is all of the above.


Opinion.
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Its a fact I will prove it below.



I said I believe everybody is bisexual. I said I believe we all are bisexual. After saying it once, I may have omitted it from any following statements to you. And that may be the reason why you think I am trying to state my beliefs as fact. Sorry. I will try harder to always include phrases like "in my opinion such-in-such, i believe such-in-such.
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Your belief is absurd because it is proven wrong. You believe everyday is bisexual, i am not. If i believed i was a purple flying elephant would I be right?

You can put any prefix in front of an absurd statement out doesn't make it less absurd.

But you also have another way around this, you believe that someone doesn't know their sexuality as well as you do. This is far more absurd than believing in purple flying elephants. You believe you are omnipotent this is more than absurd it's delusional. To believe your labels for people are more correct than the orientation of others, that borders on narcissistic psychosis.
 
CLAX1911 said:
It didn't change the orientation because the orientation was constantly bisexual. I don't believe it is possible to alter the orientation. It isn't necessary for a person with the orientation of bisexual to alter it to switch between men and women. Bisexual means that the person is sexually oriented to both. That never changed. Since our species sex is binary a bisexual is all of the above.



Its a fact I will prove it below.





Your belief is absurd because it is proven wrong. You believe everyday is bisexual, i am not. If i believed i was a purple flying elephant would I be right?

You can put any prefix in front of an absurd statement out doesn't make it less absurd.

But you also have another way around this, you believe that someone doesn't know their sexuality as well as you do. This is far more absurd than believing in purple flying elephants. You believe you are omnipotent this is more than absurd it's delusional. To believe your labels for people are more correct than the orientation of others, that borders on narcissistic psychosis.
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It's just my belief. Does it really make you think I'm suffering narcissistic psychosis? does that mean you are omnipotent and know my mental state better than I do? of course not. that is just your belief. I don't get bent out of shape over it.
 
AngryOldGuy said:
There you go, your true position has been evident all along.

So tell me if there ever was a 'push back' from the 98% of the population what would it look like?
and what's this adoption thingie of which you speak? I thought raising children was a 'breeder thing'
and honestly you've lost me what 'bizarre superstition' are you referring too?
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There isn't 98% that will push back, most heterosexual people don't worry with my relationship. This is a lunatic fringe thing maybe 10% would be pushing back. You are crying to me, "waa waa waa please stop gaining equality I don't like it!" No you won't push back you will be forced into the woods and mocked for your stillness.

Gay people raise children, you thought wrong.

Your bizarre superstition is the notion that proximity to homosexuals will make you homosexual or that homosexuals will somehow endanger youth. What other reason would you have for excluding them from boy scouts.
 
USNavySquid said:
It's just my belief. Does it really make you think I'm suffering narcissistic psychosis? does that mean you are omnipotent and know my mental state better than I do? of course not. that is just your belief. I don't get bent out of shape over it.
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You believe things that are proven untrue. It's hard to not think there is something wrong. If you told me you believed that you were a horse it would be the same.

I am not bent out of shape i am stating the facts. You seem to perceivethat I am angry when I state reality. I am sorry if reality offends you.
 
CLAX1911 said:
You believe things that are proven untrue. It's hard to not think there is something wrong. If you told me you believed that you were a horse it would be the same.

I am not bent out of shape i am stating the facts. You seem to perceivethat I am angry when I state reality. I am sorry if reality offends you.
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It's not proven untrue. The APA states that the cause of orientation is unknown. Therefore, it could be a result of choice? no?
 
USNavySquid said:
It's not proven untrue. The APA states that the cause of orientation is unknown. Therefore, it could be a result of choice? no?
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Okay, but that doesn't mean we are all bisexual.

I know it isn't a choice through experience.

Your belief that all people are bisexual is untrue because I am not.
 
CLAX1911 said:
Okay, but that doesn't mean we are all bisexual.

I know it isn't a choice through experience.

Your belief that all people are bisexual is untrue because I am not.
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As far as you know. I'm suggesting that we don't really know anything. Not even about ourselves. Why? Because we have preferences. Because we are acted on by messages and people in our environment. Bec we notice what others like and dislike and we let that influence us. Therefore, it is possible that we construct and maintain and identity for ourselves, and a logical, fact-based rational for that construct, that suits all those influences to our own satisfaction.
 
"stop gaining equality I don't like it"
well there you go
homosexuality is not equal to normal sexuality
apples are not oranges nor even kumquats!
Nothing you will ever say or do or have legislated will make it so.
I'm not concerned about bisexuality, bestiality, pedophilia or any other aberrant behavior.
My issue is with the government making laws in regard to it.
What of the rights of the parents who'd rather not have 'a lifestyle choice' foisted upon their children?
What of the rights of employers to hire people they choose to hire?
By what divine right should your 'choices' be rammed down the throats of the other 98% of the population?
That's the crux of the issue you are being used as a political pawn by a government whose only goal is to coerce the population into doing things that they normally wouldn't.
 
CLAX1911

USNavySquid said:
As far as you know. I'm suggesting that we don't really know anything. Not even about ourselves. Why? Because we have preferences. Because we are acted on by messages and people in our environment. Bec we notice what others like and dislike and we let that influence us. Therefore, it is possible that we construct and maintain and identity for ourselves, and a logical, fact-based rational for that construct, that suits all those influences to our own satisfaction.
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and we don't even know it. In my opinion, we are so adamant in our views, and refuse to open up to new ideas because deep down, we are so afraid that the idea will shake the identity we have constructed and maintained for ourselves. That a new idea may challenge the "truth" about who we think we are. And that is terrifying to us. It is the fear of the unknown. "You mean I really don't know myself? After all these years? How can that be? BAH! it's impossible! It's absurd!"
 
USNavySquid said:
As far as you know. I'm suggesting that we don't really know anything. Not even about ourselves. Why?
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Speak for yourself. I Know plenty about myself.
USNavySquid said:
Because we have preferences. Because we are acted on by messages and people in our environment.
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I can't really make much of this statement. Having preferences doesn't mean that orientation is chosen. So if I am acted on by messages and people" what ever the hell that means, that is my choice?

No I am sorry but this statement is absurd. Being acted upon is not a choice. Having preferences, not so sure that is a choice either.

USNavySquid said:
Bec we notice what others like and dislike and we let that influence us.
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No, we don't. Again speak for yourself.
So again how is being influenced a choice?

Therefore, it is possible that we construct and maintain and identity for ourselves, and a logical, fact-based rational for that construct, that suits all those influences to our own satisfaction.
[/QUOTE]
You are referring to a label. Of course we choose those, I am not speaking of the labels of sexuality but the thing that the label represents.

How do we choose what influences us, the way we achieve satisfaction aside? Influence suggests that there is an outside force involved. So if there is something external to us guiding our decisions than is that really a choice?

I finally get what you are saying but the reaction to stimuli in the world at large is the reaction. I don't think the reaction is caused by what we wish it to be. I personally believe the reaction is involuntary based on human behavior in general. Reactions to stimuli are typically the sourceof much of our fear, struggles health problems instabilities to communicate and so on basically the things we make efforts to change. But you never really change it, you simply learn to compensate. I call these reactions instincts. I very much believe homosexuality is an instinct, you can't change it you certainly can compensate but why?
 
Nightrider said:
Simply vote and discuss whether you believe that homosexuals have a choice in the matter, or were simply born that way, with no choice whatsoever.
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er.... unequivocally yes.


To, well, both. :)


Some individuals demonstrate rock-solid homosexual activity under even the most punative of environments. Where there are strong incentives against engaging in homosexual behavior, we can be sure that the behavior itself is unlikely to be motivated by exogenous factors. Ergo, there likely is a genetic precondition that does indeed steer towards homosexual attraction. But genetics are not the end of the story, either, for we can see that homosexual expression alters as a portion of the populace dependent upon allowance or encouragement (when incentives are neutral or encouraging), indicating that exogenous factors can have an effect on marginal cases, which appears to include a not-insignificant portion of the homo and bi sexual population.


:shrug: People are born with a range of sexual possibilities. Within that range, our experiences and our choices do indeed shape where we will end up.
 
CLAX1911 said:
Speak for yourself. I Know plenty about myself.
I can't really make much of this statement. Having preferences doesn't mean that orientation is chosen. So if I am acted on by messages and people" what ever the hell that means, that is my choice?

No I am sorry but this statement is absurd. Being acted upon is not a choice. Having preferences, not so sure that is a choice either.

No, we don't. Again speak for yourself.
So again how is being influenced a choice?

Therefore, it is possible that we construct and maintain and identity for ourselves, and a logical, fact-based rational for that construct, that suits all those influences to our own satisfaction.

You are referring to a label. Of course we choose those, I am not speaking of the labels of sexuality but the thing that the label represents.

How do we choose what influences us, the way we achieve satisfaction aside? Influence suggests that there is an outside force involved. So if there is something external to us guiding our decisions than is that really a choice?

I finally get what you are saying but the reaction to stimuli in the world at large is the reaction. I don't think the reaction is caused by what we wish it to be. I personally believe the reaction is involuntary based on human behavior in general. Reactions to stimuli are typically the sourceof much of our fear, struggles health problems instabilities to communicate and so on basically the things we make efforts to change. But you never really change it, you simply learn to compensate. I call these reactions instincts. I very much believe homosexuality is an instinct, you can't change it you certainly can compensate but why?
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I think you are denying the possibility that the identity you have constructed for yourself, -not just your orientation, now, but rather your entire identity- is partly influenced by factors beyond your conscious awareness.

I think i have jumped tracks of thought without you.

When I said, "we have preferences", I wasn't referring to sexual orientation preferences. I was speaking more broadly, regarding all the preferences we have. -The preferences that make us contemplate a new idea for a few moments, or dismiss it immediately, for example.

To dismiss or contemplate the idea is a choice. But that choice is influenced by our preferences, perhaps without our knowledge. For example, (and in this example i will use a situation that is relevant to the specific discussion on orientation) "We are all bisexual, he says. But I am not going to contemplate that idea (<--- there is the choice) because I know that I am not bisexual (<--- there is the identity you have constructed for yourself because you are comfortable with it, you have turned it around in your mind, it makes sense, it even seems logical. It is your "preference.")

That preference influences your choice to be open to my idea. I believe that this phenomena happens in all of us. And I believe that the scarier, or more threatening that a new idea is, the more adamantly people will oppose it if it is against the identity they have constructed for themselves.
 
Is Homosexuality A Choice?
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Yes and no.
The proclivities one may have for sexual attraction towards the same or opposite gender can not be chosen ... but one can choose to ignore or embrace those proclivities.
 
Boo Radley said:
No I'm not.

People are different do to many factors. John, for example, is simply not attracted to females. There's no choice. He just isn't attracted to them. Never was and never will be. Sue, for example, could never really be attracted to females either. She just isn't built that way. Again no choice.

My problem s with those of you who insist it s choice, but demonstrate no mechanism for making this supposed choice. Instead, you show people who never once considered any alternative other than the one they always were attracted to. It's like you don't understand the nature of choosing. If I cannot consider any alternative, there is no choice at all.
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Again I am only asserting that SOME people have a choice not everyone. And who are you to deny someone else their choice?

Here is the problem that you are ignoring: Tom feels that he has no choice that he was born straight. But Tom in the last few years started feeling that he really isnt straight. According to the born only assertion for sexual orientation Tom has been restricted by your argument to feel as if he cant decide now whether he is different than he used to be. This may lead Tom to feel shameful about his feelings and by how the same sex makes him feel.


You mentioned a mechanism, so why dont you show me the mechanism that would make it impossible to decide to be gay or not. What stops a person who has been gay or straight to all the sudden or even over time that they are now opposite.


I am straight Im not bi or want to be gay, but I see no reason why I couldnt change my mind. Do you say that it is impossible for me to change my mind? Why would it be impossible?

You cant know how every human being thinks, you cant with any certainty claim an absolute knowledge that someone cant one day just decide that they are gay or not gay. And all the studies in the world could not deny the possibility that people change their sexual orientation.

For you to argue against my premise that sexuality can be a choice for some people would mean that science knows everything about the human mind. We know a lot but sexuality isnt a subject that we know everything there is to know about it. Since I know more than one person that claims that they can make a choice (myself included) about their sexuality gives me the opinion that your claim isnt substantiated. Until we learn something definite on the matter my opinion is as good as yours.
 
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