View Poll Results: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

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  • Yes

    44 16.99%
  • No

    171 66.02%
  • Maybe/Don't Know

    44 16.99%
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Thread: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

  1. #131
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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    I guess it kind of depends on how you define homosexual. If we're just talking about someone who has sex with someone of the same gender, then yes, I think you can make that choice. Men who have gay sex in prison for lack of any women to have sex with are an example of this.

    However if we're talking about homosexuals as people who are attracted to members of the same sex, and aren't just doing it for lack of other options, then no, I don't think that's a choice.
    Good point. And I'd like to add that I see much more discourse on whether orientation is a choice than I see on what the relevant definitions are. I think if the discourse ever moves to that topic, the two polar sides of the argument may fracture and remix a little bit. Scary thought to those who have agendas. All the more reason to keep the discourse focused on choice and Not on definitions.

  2. #132
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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by USNavySquid View Post
    Seeing how kids react sexually. Ok. I think that the first kid to give a sign will probably be followed by the others. Conformity. And if someone deviates, they may be ostracized not because of the nature of the deviation, but because they deviated in the first place. Meaning: I don't care whether you practice hetero, homo or bi, I care whether you are going with the group and whatever it may be practicing.
    Yeah, I think this is a pretty good analysis for your hypothetical experiment.
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    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

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    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


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    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
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    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
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  3. #133
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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Yeah, I think this is a pretty good analysis for your hypothetical experiment.
    Thank you. So where does that leave us? That social programming/environment plays a big part in sexual behavior/identity?

  4. #134
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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by USNavySquid View Post
    Thank you. So where does that leave us? That social programming/environment plays a big part in sexual behavior/identity?
    No, it leaves us where we were before. That sexual orientation is caused by some combination of genetics, biology/hormones, and environment. Your hypothetical wouldn't yield us any new results. Let's say for example, the first kid to demonstrate any sexual identity, identifies as gay. We can conclude, reasonably, that his identity was probably created internally. The next child, however, has the environmental influence of the first child. Therefore the pure results are contaminated, and it could be internal or it could be external... or it could be a combination. Even the first child might have their internal prompts contaminated by other types of environmental socialization... or not. Sexual orientation is very complex.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  5. #135
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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    No, it leaves us where we were before. That sexual orientation is caused by some combination of genetics, biology/hormones, and environment. Your hypothetical wouldn't yield us any new results. Let's say for example, the first kid to demonstrate any sexual identity, identifies as gay. We can conclude, reasonably, that his identity was probably created internally. The next child, however, has the environmental influence of the first child. Therefore the pure results are contaminated, and it could be internal or it could be external... or it could be a combination. Even the first child might have their internal prompts contaminated by other types of environmental socialization... or not. Sexual orientation is very complex.
    I hear what you are saying. Let me take a different direction. Let's say it is not so much of an "identity" at all. Let's say the first kid, a boy, is sitting next to another boy. Their legs are touching. The first boy recognizes that it feels good and wants more. (and more and more). At another opportunity, he is sitting next to a girl and her breasts rub against his arm. It feels good and he wants more. Down the road he enjoys having sex with both. Rather than identify him as bisexual, can't we just say that he has discovered pleasure and seeks pleasure for its own sake, regardless of the sex of his partner? Isn't our habit to label as gay, straight, or bi inhibiting our view of this possibility? Without the social cues, all he has to go on is skin-on-skin arousal and hormones. Now, on the other hand, he may have brushed against the breast of that girl and had no reaction b/c of a personality conflict with that particular girl. Then he might demonstrate a preference for the boy he brushed his leg against. But that does not make him a homosexual in my book. Another question: Is homosexuality determined by internal identity or external behavior? Are there other options?

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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Sexual orientation is very complex.
    Agreed. It baffles me that people think they have the answer for it.

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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by USNavySquid View Post
    I hear what you are saying. Let me take a different direction. Let's say it is not so much of an "identity" at all. Let's say the first kid, a boy, is sitting next to another boy. Their legs are touching. The first boy recognizes that it feels good and wants more. (and more and more). At another opportunity, he is sitting next to a girl and her breasts rub against his arm. It feels good and he wants more. Down the road he enjoys having sex with both. Rather than identify him as bisexual, can't we just say that he has discovered pleasure and seeks pleasure for its own sake, regardless of the sex of his partner? Isn't our habit to label as gay, straight, or bi inhibiting our view of this possibility? Without the social cues, all he has to go on is skin-on-skin arousal and hormones. Now, on the other hand, he may have brushed against the breast of that girl and had no reaction b/c of a personality conflict with that particular girl. Then he might demonstrate a preference for the boy he brushed his leg against. But that does not make him a homosexual in my book. Another question: Is homosexuality determined by internal identity or external behavior? Are there other options?
    These are all excellent questions and a really good examination of the nuances and potential causes for one's sexual identity, behavior, and response. What it accentuates is how complex this issue is. Consider this. Let's say you have someone who is blind. And silently, they receive manual stimulation of their genitals... which they enjoy. This is the first time they receive any sexual stimulation from anyone. They do not know the sex of the person that provided the stimulation. What was their response based on? Sexual identity? I would say no. It was based purely on a physical response, irrelevant to sexual identity. This is yet another aspect of sexuality that complicates things further.

    I would say that the best guess is still some combination of internal and external factors.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  8. #138
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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by USNavySquid View Post
    Thank you. So where does that leave us? That social programming/environment plays a big part in sexual behavior/identity?
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    No, it leaves us where we were before. That sexual orientation is caused by some combination of genetics, biology/hormones, and environment. Your hypothetical wouldn't yield us any new results. Let's say for example, the first kid to demonstrate any sexual identity, identifies as gay. We can conclude, reasonably, that his identity was probably created internally. The next child, however, has the environmental influence of the first child. Therefore the pure results are contaminated, and it could be internal or it could be external... or it could be a combination. Even the first child might have their internal prompts contaminated by other types of environmental socialization... or not. Sexual orientation is very complex.
    HEY!!!!! Didn't either of you read MY post #103!!! (fumming) It's like i was talking to myself there . lol

  9. #139
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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    HEY!!!!! Didn't either of you read MY post #103!!! (fumming) It's like i was talking to myself there . lol
    Sorry about that. I was just looking around at different threads and I across this one AFTER your post.

    Good post. Got a thanks from me.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  10. #140
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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    These are all excellent questions and a really good examination of the nuances and potential causes for one's sexual identity, behavior, and response. What it accentuates is how complex this issue is. Consider this. Let's say you have someone who is blind. And silently, they receive manual stimulation of their genitals... which they enjoy. This is the first time they receive any sexual stimulation from anyone. They do not know the sex of the person that provided the stimulation. What was their response based on? Sexual identity? I would say no. It was based purely on a physical response, irrelevant to sexual identity. This is yet another aspect of sexuality that complicates things further.

    I would say that the best guess is still some combination of internal and external factors.
    I've used that example myself. The most frequent response is that "there is more to sexual orientation that getting off." But what more... and to what degree and how many people agree with this? I have tried to reason what defines our orientation: Who we prefer to receive sexual pleasure from, who we fall in love with or both? People have given me different answers. I have guessed that even love is a physical reaction to repeated exposure. Emotions are simply chemical reactions.... proteins and enzymes being synthesized, stored, released and sent through the body. This narrows it down to orientation having physical roots. The variable, I guessed, is who we pay attention to. In my opinion, that is a matter of choice.

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