View Poll Results: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

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  • Yes

    44 16.99%
  • No

    171 66.02%
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    44 16.99%
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Thread: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

  1. #1091
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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nynaeve Meara View Post
    it is a normal trait among humans.
    Nope. Not normal. Normal means usual, or typical.

    A handful of percent of the population being homosexual is not normal. It is a small, small minority. Just say'in.
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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by johndylan1 View Post
    Actually the last line of your post is about all you got right. Societal values are not simply accepting norms, the overriding american value is liberty covered by governmental protection. Freedom to do something however does not make it moral nor a societal norm. Not looking for authoritarian government nor oppression of any type, I just want to clarify the issue. The advocates on this thread are trying to argue two opposing positions at the same time.
    1. acceptance based on predisposition
    2. acceptance based on societal norms, while drawing their own moral lines on other sexual preferences that maybe just as predisposed in those people.

    I am for liberty. Liberty to draw my own moral lines and to avoid public advocacy for others moral lines that I disagree with. If you actually think about this from a bidirectional perspective instead of from a position of advocacy, I'll bet you'd agree.
    By "liberty to avoid public advocacy for others moral lines that I (you) disagree with" do you mean you wish to be free of others advocating a morality that may be different from yours, our even opposite of yours?

    And by statement about bi-directional perspective, you think that someone would agree with you.

    I am sorry there isn't enough context here to have a conclusion and i prefer not to jump to any.

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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    Nope. Not normal. Normal means usual, or typical.

    A handful of percent of the population being homosexual is not normal. It is a small, small minority. Just say'in.
    I think Meara means that it is a natural trait in humans, it certainly isn't usual, so therefore it is not normal. But then again if you look at the entire life of a human individual you a are going to find something that is unusual. Therefore abnormality is the normal state of being for a person.

    When talking about a human populous where no two individuals are alike, the term normal really losses its meaning.

    So saying a human is abnormal is like saying water is wet.

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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by CLAX1911 View Post
    I think Meara means that it is a natural trait in humans, it certainly isn't usual, so therefore it is not normal. But then again if you look at the entire life of a human individual you a are going to find something that is unusual. Therefore abnormality is the normal state of being for a person.

    When talking about a human populous where no two individuals are alike, the term normal really losses its meaning.

    So saying a human is abnormal is like saying water is wet.
    Hmmm... it's normal to have two arms, two legs, two hands, 10-fingers, 10-toes, one head,... you get the picture.

    There are norms. Most people are not homosexual... by a long shot.

    Heterosexuality is the norm.

    Good try though.
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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    Hmmm... it's normal to have two arms, two legs, two hands, 10-fingers, 10-toes, one head,... you get the picture.

    There are norms. Most people are not homosexual... by a long shot.

    Heterosexuality is the norm.

    Good try though.
    Most people aren't left handed either. Most people aren't red headed, most people don't have two different colored eyes, yet these things exist.

    You said homosexuality isn't normal, because it is unusual, i say what is your point? Lots of people are abnormal because they are unusual. I Betty there is something about you that is unusual and therefore abnormal.

    gay people normally have 10 fingers, 10 toes, one head, so on. That just really defines them as a rather usual human being. When you look at just their sexuality yes they are going to seem abnormal, just like if you just looked at someone's dexterity left handed people would be abnormal, or people with red hair would look abnormal compared with people that have colors of hair other than red.

    You are proving that people are unique and that normal and abnormal have no meaning when applied to a species that is so vastly diverse as humans.

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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by johndylan1 View Post
    3. Any non traditional sexual orientation will do. You seem to want to have an arbitrary line drawn between acceptable and unacceptable sexual behavior based on your ever-changing standard of moral relativism. I am simply pointing out that this is inconsistent with the notion that if one is predisposed to any certain sexual orientation that makes it ok, as you argued with regard to homosexuality. In essence you started with one argument ie, predisposition insulates one from moral judgments and then when you draw a line of acceptable sexual behavior its then based on your sense of a moral society. Totally inconsistent, dishonest and smacks of advocacy at any cost.
    The only arbitrary line that gets drawn is the age at which an individual is capeable of giving consent for sex. But when it comes to any given sex act, the true line is both the ability to give consent and that said consent is indeed given. I understand that you are looking at the latest theory/evidence that pedophillia may be an inborn trait or at least something that is ingrained so early in life as to make no difference. And I will agree that if a person realizes that they have these attractions and seeks help prior to acting upon them then no shame or negative stigma should be applied to them. Indeed they should be applauded for over coming the attractions and seeking help so as not to harm a child. A predisposition towards anything should never be looked up negatively in and of itself. If acting upon said predisposition causes harm to another then the act indeed should be looked upon negatively and the action punished at some level. Homosexual activity harms no one in and of it self. Any harm that can come from homosexual acts can also come from heterosexual acts. You cannot name a single harm from homosexual acts that cannot also be applied to heterosexual ones.

    Quote Originally Posted by johndylan1 View Post
    I am for liberty. Liberty to draw my own moral lines and to avoid public advocacy for others moral lines that I disagree with. If you actually think about this from a bidirectional perspective instead of from a position of advocacy, I'll bet you'd agree.
    Depending upon what you mean by avoiding public advocacy for other moral lines that you disagree with. If it means that you have the right to attempt to avoid them, then you have that liberty. If it means that you should never have to encounter them outside of your private domain, then no that liberty does not exist for you or anyone else. That bidirectional perspective works for public advocacy for preventing/stopping the moral lines that you disagree with or, depending upon your prospective advocating the opposite of what you disagree with as the only possibility.

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    Nope. Not normal. Normal means usual, or typical.

    A handful of percent of the population being homosexual is not normal. It is a small, small minority. Just say'in.
    Quote Originally Posted by http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/normal?show=0&t=1379187531
    nor·mal adjective \ˈnȯr-məl\

    1: perpendicular; especially : perpendicular to a tangent at a point of tangency
    2 a : according with, constituting, or not deviating from a norm, rule, or principle
    b : conforming to a type, standard, or regular pattern
    3: occurring naturally <normal immunity>
    4 a : of, relating to, or characterized by average intelligence or development
    b : free from mental disorder : sane
    5 a of a solution : having a concentration of one gram equivalent of solute per liter
    b : containing neither basic hydroxyl nor acid hydrogen <normal silver phosphate>
    c : not associated <normal molecules>
    d : having a straight-chain structure <normal butyl alcohol>
    6 of a subgroup : having the property that every coset produced by operating on the left by a given element is equal to the coset produced by operating on the right by the same element
    7: relating to, involving, or being a normal curve or normal distribution <normal approximation to the binomial distribution>
    8 of a matrix : having the property of commutativity under multiplication by the transpose of the matrix each of whose elements is a conjugate complex number with respect to the corresponding element of the given matrix
    Depending upon which definition of "normal" you are looking at homosexuality may or may not be considered normal. It certainly not normal insofar as it does not occur at the top of the bell curve. But not falling into a "normal" frequency does not make a given thing unnatural. Pink lakes are natural but rare also.

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    Hmmm... it's normal to have two arms, two legs, two hands, 10-fingers, 10-toes, one head,... you get the picture.

    There are norms. Most people are not homosexual... by a long shot.

    Heterosexuality is the norm.

    Good try though.
    Not normal =/= not natural. The girl(s) with two heads I cited earlier in this thread (I believe it was this one) is not normal, but she is natural. Genetic defects are a natural part of life and development. Again it really depends upon what definition of "normal" you are using.

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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    Hmmm... it's normal to have two arms, two legs, two hands, 10-fingers, 10-toes, one head,... you get the picture.

    There are norms. Most people are not homosexual... by a long shot.

    Heterosexuality is the norm.

    Good try though.
    I don't really know what the point of this post is. I really agreed that homosexuality is not normal.
    Quote Originally Posted by CLAX1911 View Post
    I think Meara means that it is a natural trait in humans, it certainly isn't usual, so therefore it is not normal. But then again if you look at the entire life of a human individual you a are going to find something that is unusual. Therefore abnormality is the normal state of being for a person.

    When talking about a human populous where no two individuals are alike, the term normal really losses its meaning.

    So saying a human is abnormal is like saying water is wet.
    I went on to say that normal doesn't really exist, but that is absolutely true, and it doesn't mean that i says homosexuality is normal.

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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    Nope. Not normal. Normal means usual, or typical.

    A handful of percent of the population being homosexual is not normal. It is a small, small minority. Just say'in.
    If you are using the term "normal" as a statistical quality, you are correct. However, using the term "normal" as a descriptor of something that is non-deviant in a non-statistical quality, homosexuality is normal.
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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post
    The only arbitrary line that gets drawn is the age at which an individual is capeable of giving consent for sex. But when it comes to any given sex act, the true line is both the ability to give consent and that said consent is indeed given. I understand that you are looking at the latest theory/evidence that pedophillia may be an inborn trait or at least something that is ingrained so early in life as to make no difference. And I will agree that if a person realizes that they have these attractions and seeks help prior to acting upon them then no shame or negative stigma should be applied to them. Indeed they should be applauded for over coming the attractions and seeking help so as not to harm a child. A predisposition towards anything should never be looked up negatively in and of itself. If acting upon said predisposition causes harm to another then the act indeed should be looked upon negatively and the action punished at some level. Homosexual activity harms no one in and of it self. Any harm that can come from homosexual acts can also come from heterosexual acts. You cannot name a single harm from homosexual acts that cannot also be applied to heterosexual ones.



    Depending upon what you mean by avoiding public advocacy for other moral lines that you disagree with. If it means that you have the right to attempt to avoid them, then you have that liberty. If it means that you should never have to encounter them outside of your private domain, then no that liberty does not exist for you or anyone else. That bidirectional perspective works for public advocacy for preventing/stopping the moral lines that you disagree with or, depending upon your prospective advocating the opposite of what you disagree with as the only possibility.
    I did not mention pedophilia, the other person interjected that as a straw man and I'm not looking for a straw man, I'm making a logical point about the double minded debate that happens with advocates. The arguments are inconsistent and dishonest.

    Advocacy in public would include advocating non traditional behavior as normal within public institutions that me or my children are compelled to use such as the schools and courts, and also in a chosen profession as when one is forced to service an event that advocates for a moral position I disagree with. (see thread about primacy of rights).

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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by CLAX1911 View Post
    Most people aren't left handed either. Most people aren't red headed, most people don't have two different colored eyes, yet these things exist.

    You said homosexuality isn't normal, because it is unusual, i say what is your point? Lots of people are abnormal because they are unusual. I Betty there is something about you that is unusual and therefore abnormal.

    gay people normally have 10 fingers, 10 toes, one head, so on. That just really defines them as a rather usual human being. When you look at just their sexuality yes they are going to seem abnormal, just like if you just looked at someone's dexterity left handed people would be abnormal, or people with red hair would look abnormal compared with people that have colors of hair other than red.

    You are proving that people are unique and that normal and abnormal have no meaning when applied to a species that is so vastly diverse as humans.
    My point... is... quite simple. To correct the poster who said it is "normal". Nothing more... nothing less.

    Homosexuality is not... "normal". Heterosexuality is "normal."

    Just say'in.
    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

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