View Poll Results: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

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  • Yes

    44 16.99%
  • No

    171 66.02%
  • Maybe/Don't Know

    44 16.99%
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Thread: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

  1. #1081
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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nynaeve Meara View Post
    1.

    No not all are ok, we as a society have deemed consensual sexual choices as favourable and the laws of the land reflect this.
    ''We as a society''
    ...So not looking to blend in?

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    Advisor Nynaeve Meara's Avatar
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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by johndylan1 View Post
    1. I see no advocacy groups that try to change homosexuals against their will. I do, however, see groups that do not want homosexual values imposed upon them via public institutions such as schools.
    2. Morality to the nonreligious is relative, but to the religious it is not. Fortunately freedom of religion is enshrined in our constitution and is practiced by a large majority that does not view it as outdated nor as a control device.
    3. If the decision on what is acceptable sexual behavior is based on societal norms as you have stated, and not on how one is born or predisposed, then you have agreed with those who say it is a moral choice.
    1. Then you are either ignorant of a group called NARTH or willfully blind to it. Homosexuality should be taught in schools in the same vein as heterosexuality in a class called Sex Ed. As it is a normal trait among humans.

    2. Morality is relative to both nonreligious and religious after all the religious will changes their views on what is moral based on the time period an excellent example is the Christian change from not eating shellfish to allowing shellfish.

    3. Sexual acts are the choices, your orientation is not. I have no desire to return to the Roman/Greek bathhouses where boys and girls were raped on a daily basis. Psychology has proven this is harmful to the children, which is why we have age of consent laws now. We as a society have matured.

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfie View Post
    ''We as a society''
    ...So not looking to blend in?
    I have no idea what you mean by this.
    "I can't abide women who poke their noses into other people's business."
    “Men are strange. I think it has something to do with the hair on their chins.”

  3. #1083
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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nynaeve Meara View Post
    1. Then you are either ignorant of a group called NARTH or willfully blind to it. Homosexuality should be taught in schools in the same vein as heterosexuality in a class called Sex Ed. As it is a normal trait among humans.

    2. Morality is relative to both nonreligious and religious after all the religious will changes their views on what is moral based on the time period an excellent example is the Christian change from not eating shellfish to allowing shellfish.

    3. Sexual acts are the choices, your orientation is not. I have no desire to return to the Roman/Greek bathhouses where boys and girls were raped on a daily basis. Psychology has proven this is harmful to the children, which is why we have age of consent laws now. We as a society have matured.


    I have no idea what you mean by this.
    ''we are a society''
    Think about it!!

  4. #1084
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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nynaeve Meara View Post
    1. Then you are either ignorant of a group called NARTH or willfully blind to it. Homosexuality should be taught in schools in the same vein as heterosexuality in a class called Sex Ed. As it is a normal trait among humans.

    2. Morality is relative to both nonreligious and religious after all the religious will changes their views on what is moral based on the time period an excellent example is the Christian change from not eating shellfish to allowing shellfish.

    3. Sexual acts are the choices, your orientation is not. I have no desire to return to the Roman/Greek bathhouses where boys and girls were raped on a daily basis. Psychology has proven this is harmful to the children, which is why we have age of consent laws now. We as a society have matured.
    1. NARTH does not seek to change the unwilling. Are their clients kidnapped and forced into therapy? Just silly. Homosexuality should not be taught. Human sexuality based on anatomy, reproductive function, and health is more than sufficient. Just because something is a part of society doesn't mean it should be taught or advocated for inpractice and as a societal norm.

    2. You are incorrect, understanding changes because humans are fallible, but moral relativism is much more than this. Moral relativism invites anything to be moral if one can convince enough people that it is. What a very dangerous standard for minorities don't you think?

    3. But what if you are born that way, it's your orientation? Why is it wrong in your world? Is it because it is a minority opinion?

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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by johndylan1 View Post
    1. NARTH does not seek to change the unwilling. Are their clients kidnapped and forced into therapy? Just silly. Homosexuality should not be taught. Human sexuality based on anatomy, reproductive function, and health is more than sufficient. Just because something is a part of society doesn't mean it should be taught or advocated for inpractice and as a societal norm.

    2. You are incorrect, understanding changes because humans are fallible, but moral relativism is much more than this. Moral relativism invites anything to be moral if one can convince enough people that it is. What a very dangerous standard for minorities don't you think?

    3. But what if you are born that way, it's your orientation? Why is it wrong in your world? Is it because it is a minority opinion?
    1. Yes, NARTH does seek to change the unwilling, that is why all of their reparative therapies have been incredibly harmful to the individual and they are sponsoring forcing parents to put their homosexual children into said therapy, ie unwilling. Human sexuality is based on many factors and reproductive function is not always reason there is a reason we do not have a penis bone, pleasure has been part of human sexuality for hundreds of thousands of years. Homosexuality is a societal norm; you may disagree with that assessment but it has been around as long as humans have been around. On top of being heavily documented in the animal kingdom as well, it is not a human construct, which is why teaching children there is nothing wrong with them if they are homosexual is a good thing.

    2. I'm quite correct. If you'd look back and see how the Christian faith has rewritten itself several times over on top of splitting up into different factions due to moral relativism that is your own unwillingness to see it. Another example besides just shellfish are lighting rods. They were considered immoral at the time they were invented and now they are acceptable. Just more revisionist religious moral justification.

    3. What orientation are you talking about? Pedophilia? It is damaging to the child pysche as they are not a willing participant in the act. Confusing authoritative figure over said child as consent is the problem the Greeks/Romans had with the bath houses. My opinion has nothing to do with it being a minority.
    "I can't abide women who poke their noses into other people's business."
    “Men are strange. I think it has something to do with the hair on their chins.”

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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfie View Post
    ''we are a society''
    Think about it!!
    Incoherent thought, I have no idea what you mean. Explain please.
    "I can't abide women who poke their noses into other people's business."
    “Men are strange. I think it has something to do with the hair on their chins.”

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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nynaeve Meara View Post
    1. Yes, NARTH does seek to change the unwilling, that is why all of their reparative therapies have been incredibly harmful to the individual and they are sponsoring forcing parents to put their homosexual children into said therapy, ie unwilling. Human sexuality is based on many factors and reproductive function is not always reason there is a reason we do not have a penis bone, pleasure has been part of human sexuality for hundreds of thousands of years. Homosexuality is a societal norm; you may disagree with that assessment but it has been around as long as humans have been around. On top of being heavily documented in the animal kingdom as well, it is not a human construct, which is why teaching children there is nothing wrong with them if they are homosexual is a good thing.

    2. I'm quite correct. If you'd look back and see how the Christian faith has rewritten itself several times over on top of splitting up into different factions due to moral relativism that is your own unwillingness to see it. Another example besides just shellfish are lighting rods. They were considered immoral at the time they were invented and now they are acceptable. Just more revisionist religious moral justification.

    3. What orientation are you talking about? Pedophilia? It is damaging to the child pysche as they are not a willing participant in the act. Confusing authoritative figure over said child as consent is the problem the Greeks/Romans had with the bath houses. My opinion has nothing to do with it being a minority.
    1. Just silly reasoning. Parents have protective rights over their minor children, there can be no force. Your description of "homosexual children" being forced is not what anyone would accept as truth. Let me restate, just because something happens doesn't make it a societal norm that deserves advocacy. Plenty of people choose to smoke and it was once considered hip, it deserved no public advocacy in our schools, now smoking is seen as a health risk and is not seen as hip and still deserves no advocacy. Homosexuality is abnormal by definition as it is well outside majority sexual preference (this is not a moral statement, it is a statistical statement).

    2. see previous answer, no amount of examples can remove human fallibility nor the danger in moral relativism.

    3. Any non traditional sexual orientation will do. You seem to want to have an arbitrary line drawn between acceptable and unacceptable sexual behavior based on your ever-changing standard of moral relativism. I am simply pointing out that this is inconsistent with the notion that if one is predisposed to any certain sexual orientation that makes it ok, as you argued with regard to homosexuality. In essence you started with one argument ie, predisposition insulates one from moral judgments and then when you draw a line of acceptable sexual behavior its then based on your sense of a moral society. Totally inconsistent, dishonest and smacks of advocacy at any cost.

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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by johndylan1 View Post
    we could actually care about truth, societal values, and the culture in which we live and raise our children.
    Truth is being discovered as we speak. All of the major studies have shown a strong correlation/implication that homosexuality has a biological background. Societal values you don't get to dictate. No one does. Same with culture. We don't have an authority on culture like they have in communist and fascist states. In free countries, societal values and culture are whatever they are based on what the majority feels like doing.

    Quote Originally Posted by johndylan1 View Post
    3. Are all sexual predilections equally ok and beyond choice, or is it just the behavior that is being advocated for as being the new norm?
    If you don't find them okay, then that's your deal. If someone else finds them okay, then that's their deal. What's "Okay" isn't to be determined by any central authority, but by individual choice. The current trend is that something that was once considered immoral, and even illegal, is no longer considered a problem by the majority of Americans. If that's what the majority of Americans think, then that's what the societal values and cultural norms are. We don't need some authoritarian over lord to tell us what our culture and our values are going to be.

    If you find it immoral for homos to have sex, that's your problem. If most of the rest of the country doesn't feel the need to shame or attack gays, then that's the new societal value: individual liberty is more valuable than conformity.
    "All that stuff I was taught about evolution, embryology, Big Bang theory, all that is lies straight from the pit of hell [the bible] teaches us how to run all our public policy and everything in society." Rep. Paul Broun (R)

  9. #1089
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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by johndylan1 View Post
    Answered this before... but. There are currently no studies that definitively conclude that attraction is biological or genetic. There are however several studies that do conclude that attraction is learned behavior.

    To address directly the Idea of a natural (uncontrollable) attraction to the same sex, and how learned behavior can coexist. I would say that reproduction is not the base instinct, but sex is. Most if not all will have a base instinct to engage in sexual activity, but that is not limited to a particular object or set of objects of sexual interest. Those interests are developed, and I would suggest they become entrenched within the psyche at times of rapid neurological development and subsequent neurological pruning, leaving one feeling as if it is their natural state. Neurological development and plasticity is a very interesting topic with regard to human behavior, and this is the core of learned behavior.
    I can believe that it is a learned behavior as much as it could be genetic or anything else. That really doesn't mean its a choice. Being that psychologists have not been able to pin point any particular cause that "makes a person gay."

    I am more than willing to give the idea that it is a learned behavior, so far there is as much proof for that as there is for genetic or biological sources for homosexuality's origin.

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    Re: Is Homosexuality A Choice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grendel View Post
    Truth is being discovered as we speak. All of the major studies have shown a strong correlation/implication that homosexuality has a biological background. Societal values you don't get to dictate. No one does. Same with culture. We don't have an authority on culture like they have in communist and fascist states. In free countries, societal values and culture are whatever they are based on what the majority feels like doing.



    If you don't find them okay, then that's your deal. If someone else finds them okay, then that's their deal. What's "Okay" isn't to be determined by any central authority, but by individual choice. The current trend is that something that was once considered immoral, and even illegal, is no longer considered a problem by the majority of Americans. If that's what the majority of Americans think, then that's what the societal values and cultural norms are. We don't need some authoritarian over lord to tell us what our culture and our values are going to be.

    If you find it immoral for homos to have sex, that's your problem. If most of the rest of the country doesn't feel the need to shame or attack gays, then that's the new societal value: individual liberty is more valuable than conformity.
    Actually the last line of your post is about all you got right. Societal values are not simply accepting norms, the overriding american value is liberty covered by governmental protection. Freedom to do something however does not make it moral nor a societal norm. Not looking for authoritarian government nor oppression of any type, I just want to clarify the issue. The advocates on this thread are trying to argue two opposing positions at the same time.
    1. acceptance based on predisposition
    2. acceptance based on societal norms, while drawing their own moral lines on other sexual preferences that maybe just as predisposed in those people.

    I am for liberty. Liberty to draw my own moral lines and to avoid public advocacy for others moral lines that I disagree with. If you actually think about this from a bidirectional perspective instead of from a position of advocacy, I'll bet you'd agree.

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