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Concealled Carry Permits and state borders

Should reciprication of permits be mandatory?

  • Total voters
    25
ChrisL said:
How would you suggest guns that are used in crimes be traced back to the owners then?
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Finger printing, ballistics, etc. But quite honestly, requiring no permit to keep and bear arms has little to do with this point which is one more of data basing and data mining. And for that, I'm sure the NSA already has all the info.
 
I'm more than willing to work with people. Politics always trumps ideology.

Let's have Federal guidelines for a permit, and then that permit has national reciprocity. You want some fees, some NICS, passport photo, birth certificate, proof of residency, and a nice 40hr class which includes a practical exam and qualification? No problem. I'm on board with that. I don't necessarily like all that but I'm willing to deal.

In exchange, as I said, national reciprocity, no "approved gun lists", and most gun-free zones eliminated (most, not all. Keep ERs, court rooms, polls, jails, and similar, but not post offices, DMV, any school, or public events or places). I'm willing to let states decide for themselves how to handle the gun-buster issue so long as states are willing to let me decide how to handle the carry-concealed-or-open issue.

And yes, remove the machine gun ban, but I'll work with you there, too. Just like different classes of drivers licences we can have different classes of gun licenses. If someone wants to buy Class-3 firearms they get to pay another fee and take another class focusing on automatic weapons.

I'm willing to toss in some storage law (must store guns in a rated safe) if the Fed tosses in a national Castle Doctrine.
 
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I don't mind state's requiring a certain amount of training and licensing and background checks to issue CCW's. In fact, I hope they do since I wouldn't want an untrained individual toting a firearm any more than I'd want a person who had no training and experience driving a car.

That said, I find it ludicrous that CCW's issued in one state are not accepted in ALL states, like drivers' licenses and marriage licenses (oops, I guess some states are going to stop accepting certain marriage licenses nowadays). So yeah, I personally agree that legitimately-issued CCW's should be required to be accepted in all states, period. Since I'm no constitutional scholar, I shall refrain from opining on that. :lol:
 
DiAnna said:
I don't mind state's requiring a certain amount of training and licensing and background checks to issue CCW's. In fact, I hope they do since I wouldn't want an untrained individual toting a firearm any more than I'd want a person who had no training and experience driving a car.

That said, I find it ludicrous that CCW's issued in one state are not accepted in ALL states, like drivers' licenses and marriage licenses (oops, I guess some states are going to stop accepting certain marriage licenses nowadays). So yeah, I personally agree that legitimately-issued CCW's should be required to be accepted in all states, period. Since I'm no constitutional scholar, I shall refrain from opining on that. :lol:
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Gays will get a taste of what it's like when they have to consult maps showing where their marriage is and isn't honored. If I land a great job in CA, I have to give up my right to carry to take the job. Likewise if a gay person lands a great job in SD, they have to give up their right to marry to take it (SD has a constitutional ban against SSM).
 
Jerry said:
Gays will get a taste of what it's like when they have to consult maps showing where their marriage is and isn't honored. If I land a great job in CA, I have to give up my right to carry to take the job. Likewise if a gay person lands a great job in SD, they have to give up their right to marry to take it (SD has a constitutional ban against SSM).
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It is posts like these that continue to prove how devastating the 10th/civil war amendment has been to our country. It is the source of every huge case making it to the SCOTUS Corruptus these days. Don't speed coming into NE Colorado on Interstate-76 all the way past Morgan county. Colorado has a very difficult expungement law compared to other states. Good thing there is a civil rights law. At least for now.
 
Two completely different ID's, except in Texas, as of two days ago. I can't believe all of the apples and oranges on DP from cons? Has it always been this way since you are an old-timer? Talk about derailment. I might as well drive your semi eastbound in the westbound lanes.
Jerry said:
I cannot object to requiring an ID to carry a gun since I support requiring an ID to vote. That would make me a hypocrite.
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NIMBY said:
Two completely different ID's, except in Texas, as of two days ago. I can't believe all of the apples and oranges on DP from cons? Has it always been this way since you are an old-timer? Talk about derailment. I might as well drive your semi eastbound in the westbound lanes.
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You got a problem with fruit?
 
I have a CCL and yet when traveling through Illinois I am taking big risk. However I have called them ahead of time before and was told as long as I could not get to it while sitting in the drivers seat nothing would be said, so now I just pack it in the trunk until I get past their state lines.
 
Rocketman said:
I have a CCL and yet when traveling through Illinois I am taking big risk. However I have called them ahead of time before and was told as long as I could not get to it while sitting in the drivers seat nothing would be said, so now I just pack it in the trunk until I get past their state lines.
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Something most certainly can be said, especially if it's loaded. It has to be in a locked hard case as far away from you in the vehicle as possible. The ammunition has to be in a difference location in the car, and never in the glove box or center console. You have to be traveling through the state, not stopping except for fuel or a quick meal. You can't even spend the night in the state.

If you use your handgun for lawful self defense while traveling through IL, you will be charged with felony possession and use, even if you were in all other way in the right.
 
Jerry said:
Something most certainly can be said, especially if it's loaded. It has to be in a locked hard case as far away from you in the vehicle as possible. The ammunition has to be in a difference location in the car, and never in the glove box or center console. You have to be traveling through the state, not stopping except for fuel or a quick meal. You can't even spend the night in the state.

If you use your handgun for lawful self defense while traveling through IL, you will be charged with felony possession and use, even if you were in all other way in the right.
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It stays in the trunk, locked. I go to several target shooting contest through invites from friends and clients
 
Jerry said:
Something most certainly can be said, especially if it's loaded. It has to be in a locked hard case as far away from you in the vehicle as possible.
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No. It must be encased and can be even sitting in the back seat. As long as it is unloaded (including any magazines as they are considered part of the gun) it can be encased anywhere in the vehicle.

Jerry said:
The ammunition has to be in a different location in the car, and never in the glove box or center console. You have to be traveling through the state, not stopping except for fuel or a quick meal. You can't even spend the night in the state.
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Yes you can spend the night as long as you abide by Illinois storage of ammo and weapons. If the ammunition is locked in the glove box or center console it is fine. The weapon as long as encased and unloaded cannot be stored in the same place as the ammo. So if one is in the trunk, the other can be in any other storage compartment.

Jerry said:
If you use your handgun for lawful self defense while traveling through IL, you will be charged with felony possession and use, even if you were in all other way in the right.
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True in most cases, but not all. It depends on where you are. For example if you are in Will County you will have little trouble. Cook County on the other hand is the exact and polar opposite. I agree though better just to leave it alone.
 
Black Manta said:
No. It must be encased and can be even sitting in the back seat. As long as it is unloaded (including any magazines as they are considered part of the gun) it can be encased anywhere in the vehicle.

Yes you can spend the night as long as you abide by Illinois storage of ammo and weapons. If the ammunition is locked in the glove box or center console it is fine. The weapon as long as encased and unloaded cannot be stored in the same place as the ammo. So if one is in the trunk, the other can be in any other storage compartment.

True in most cases, but not all. It depends on where you are. For example if you are in Will County you will have little trouble. Cook County on the other hand is the exact and polar opposite. I agree though better just to leave it alone.
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Thank you for demonstrating why gun owners of any kind should have to take a gun-education class in addition to any gun-training class.

18 USC § 926A - Interstate transportation of firearms | Title 18 - Crimes and Criminal Procedure | U.S. Code | LII / Legal Information Institute
Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver’s compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.
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See also:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_Owners_Protection_Act
LegalHeat app for Droid and iPhone

If you have a trunk, the gun has to be in the trunk. LegalHeat's LEO trainers told us to always use a locked hard case.

I'm going to take the word and provided resources of my permit instructors over you every single time, Mr. Random Anon from the internetz.

*****
These rules shouldn't matter, because these rules shouldn't exist.
 
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I like the gun-education and gun-training classes. You're better off driving through my state of Illinois, especially on Interstate 80. Otherwise, be careful in my LaSalle county, where I-39 and I-80 intersect. Btw, our concealed-carry law is due to be dealt with by July 9th.
Jerry said:
Thank you for demonstrating why gun owners of any kind should have to take a gun-education class in addition to any gun-training class.


See also:
Firearm Owners Protection Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'm going to take the word and provided resources of my permit instructors over you every single time, Mr. Random Anon from the internetz.
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NIMBY said:
I like the gun-education and gun-training classes. You're better off driving through my state of Illinois, especially on Interstate 80. Otherwise, be careful in my LaSalle county, where I-39 and I-80 intersect. Btw, our concealed-carry law is due to be dealt with by July 9th.
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Are you folks offering a non-resident permit? Because tons of folks will line up to give your state money if you do, myself included.

Any word on what state's IL will reciprocate with?
 
Rocketman said:
I have a CCL and yet when traveling through Illinois I am taking big risk. However I have called them ahead of time before and was told as long as I could not get to it while sitting in the drivers seat nothing would be said, so now I just pack it in the trunk until I get past their state lines.
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I don't think so. I think the state police here are sick of this CCL BS. 99 out of 102 counties voted for a wing-nut for governor in 2010, mainly because our governor promised to raise the income tax, which he did.
 
I'll keep that in mind and try to learn more. We sure need the money. The conservative Dems from Chicago like Madigan want the law passed by the General Assembly. I'm not sure about reciprocity, but I like the concept. It seems to be a decent equalizer to the 10th amendment. Is SD South Dakota or San Diego?
Jerry said:
Are you folks offering a non-resident permit? Because tons of folks will line up to give your state money if you do, myself included.

Any word on what state's IL will reciprocate with?
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NIMBY said:
I'll keep that in mind and try to learn more. We sure need the money. The conservative Dems from Chicago like Madigan want the law passed by the General Assembly. I'm not sure about reciprocity, but I like the concept. It seems to be a decent equalizer to the 10th amendment. Is SD South Dakota or San Diego?
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South Dakota.

I have a Utah permit for carrying in Ohio, and am now applying for an Arizona permit so I can carry through Kansas on my way to & from a job site in Oklahoma.
 
Now this is what I call government red tape. Too many states acting like Chiefs instead of Indians. You'd think we could find a good law for each issue. It is just my opinion that the 10th amendment will always hold us back.

I have many fond memories in SD, where my wife's Father was from, the Burke/Gregory area. Yankton across the Missouri at Fort Randall to Gregory back up to I-90 and on to Rapid and the Black Hills complex. Even the Badlands N.P along with Devil's tower. I never tire of the west. Beginning in the summer of 1973, I started going through Glenwood Springs watching I-70 get built. Amazing.
Jerry said:
South Dakota.

I have a Utah permit for carrying in Ohio, and am now applying for an Arizona permit so I can carry through Kansas on my way to & from a job site in Oklahoma.
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NIMBY said:
Now this is what I call government red tape. Too many states acting like Chiefs instead of Indians. You'd think we could find a good law for each issue. It is just my opinion that the 10th amendment will always hold us back.
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I argue that it's not a 10th Amendment issue since the right to keep and carry is specifically enumerated. The ATF, if it has to exist at all, should be the only authority issuing gun permits, and every state should be forced to honor that permit just as every state is forced to honor your right to speech.

Of-course that's making a deal with the devil since 1. we shouldn't need a permit to carry at all, and 2. the ATF has a long history of abuse.
 
Jerry said:
Thank you for demonstrating why gun owners of any kind should have to take a gun-education class in addition to any gun-training class.
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In the state of Illinois which I was a police officer. I know what the law says no matter what the University says Federally, I actually enforced them...

A non-resident is permitted to possess a firearm without a FOID if it is unloaded and enclosed in a case, or if the nonresident is:

• Hunting and has a non-resident hunting license, while in an area where hunting is permitted.
• On a target range recognized by the Department of State Police.
• At a gun show recognized by the Department of State Police.
• Currently licensed or registered to possess a firearm in his state of residence.

Any resident of Iowa, Missouri, Indiana, Wisconsin or Kentucky, or a non-resident with a valid non-resident hunting license, who is 18 years of age or older and who is not prohibited by the laws of Illinois, the state of his domicile, or the United States from obtaining, possessing or using a firearm, may purchase or obtain a rifle, shotgun or ammunition for a rifle or shotgun in Illinois. A non-resident who qualifies to possess a firearm under one of the above-listed exceptions may also purchase ammunition.

The location of ammunition being transported, including ammunition being transported in loaded magazines, is not regulated if the firearm is possessed or transported lawfully. However, when transporting DO NOT store a loaded magazine in the firearm’s well, clear the chamber and clear a revolver’s cylinder of ammunition. - http://www.isp.state.il.us/docs/1-154.pdf

This applies to non residents as they do not need an FOID card in the case of transporting a firearm to a local event from out of state.

Most police in Illinois are not Federal officers and don't give a rats ass about Federal laws that are not enforced in their state by other than Federal officers.

Thanks for demonstrating why gun owners should leave the law to professionals.

Jerry said:
See also:
Firearm Owners Protection Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
LegalHeat app for Droid and iPhone

If you have a trunk, the gun has to be in the trunk. LegalHeat's LEO trainers told us to always use a locked hard case.

I'm going to take the word and provided resources of my permit instructors over you every single time, Mr. Random Anon from the internetz.
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You do that, it will teach you just enough to be a know it all and not much else.

Jerry said:
*****
These rules shouldn't matter, because these rules shouldn't exist.
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They don't matter in most states.
 
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Black Manta said:
In the state of Illinois which I was a police officer.
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Yeah right. Thanks for the laughs :lol:

Just like every 20 y/o civilian contractor in Afghanistan claimed to be a retired 1st Sergeant. mhmm, sure.
 
Jerry said:
South Dakota.

I have a Utah permit for carrying in Ohio, and am now applying for an Arizona permit so I can carry through Kansas on my way to & from a job site in Oklahoma.
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Why don't you just apply for a Florida CCW as it covers all those states and you can get one as a non resident. It is also good for 7 years.

Didn't your all mighty instructors tell you this?
 
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Jerry said:
Yeah right. Thanks for the laughs :lol:

Just like every 20 y/o civilian contractor in Afghanistan claimed to be a retired 1st Sergeant. mhmm, sure.
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#1 I am not retired, I did it for 2 years before I went in the army.
#2 I don't care about civilian contractors in Afghanistan.
#3 You don't have to believe me as I don't care what you think.

You have pretty much shown who you are, I can live with that.
 
I've got no problem with the 2nd amendment and your comment on gun permits from the ATF. I believe the 10th is the Queen Bee and was deliberately placed last in the BOR. I believe the 10th almost cost us the Constitution and then caused the civil war. It is well on its way to causing another one, IMHO, only this time in nearly every state.

As for having a permit, I would consider that a badge of honor after passing all the training. I'll always believe the NRA training given to my wife's nephew by his Mother saved his ass in Iraq during 3 missions, including Fallujah.
Jerry said:
I argue that it's not a 10th Amendment issue since the right to keep and carry is specifically enumerated. The ATF, if it has to exist at all, should be the only authority issuing gun permits, and every state should be forced to honor that permit just as every state is forced to honor your right to speech.

Of-course that's making a deal with the devil since 1. we shouldn't need a permit to carry at all, and 2. the ATF has a long history of abuse.
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