View Poll Results: Patriot, Traitor, or something else?

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  • Traitor (Elaborate)

    19 31.67%
  • Patriot (Elaborate)

    25 41.67%
  • Other (Elaborate)

    12 20.00%
  • I don't know

    4 6.67%
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Thread: Is Edward Snowden a traitor or a patriot?

  1. #71
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    Re: Is Edward Snowden a traitor or a patriot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    And seat belts don't prevent all traffic deaths, either...but that doesn't mean that seat belts aren't a very, very good idea that save many, many lives.
    Can you give me one example of someone whose life was saved by PRISM?
    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Hah. If someone put me in their sig, I'd never know. I have sigs off.

  2. #72
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    Re: Is Edward Snowden a traitor or a patriot?

    Quote Originally Posted by specklebang View Post
    Unless there is later indication that Snowden profited from his actions, I see a man who sacrificed his life for his country.

    Had he remained in America, under our draconian "Patriot Act" he might have been buried underground in a box for the rest of his life. He certainly wouldn't be allowed in open court since our furtive agencies have too much to lose.

    I hope he is given refuge and can live as normal a life as possible wherever he ends up.

    Our government has become increasingly powerful and evil. I doubt this will change anything but you have to try.
    I agree with much of what you've said but I have to disagree that Snowden would have been buried somewhere and never gotten a trial - even a person accused of treason in America has the right to a public, jury trial and the many civil liberties organizations in America and the Supreme Court would see to it.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

  3. #73
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    Re: Is Edward Snowden a traitor or a patriot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    To all -

    Notice that my bio says I "lean progressive". I am quite progressive (as can be seen here)...but that doesn't mean that liberal/progressive/Democratic views are always right - that's why I'm a contrarian. Sometimes - if only rarely - the conservatives are right. When it comes to Snowden and Bradley Manning, the conservatives are right.
    Which conservatives and which liberals? There is a split on both sides in regards to those two.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

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    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  4. #74
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    Re: Is Edward Snowden a traitor or a patriot?

    Quote Originally Posted by captainawesome View Post
    Of course it does.

    Right wing ideology supports a police state to get terrorists and enforce their sexual morality.
    As a conservative, I can vouch that for at least one person that's just nonsense. It is perhaps the most liberal ideologue in a half century who sits in the White House who has expanded this program without apparent concern and it is the liberals of your country who are enforcing their sexual morality, as it relates to gay marriage and access to abortion etc., on your society.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

  5. #75
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    Re: Is Edward Snowden a traitor or a patriot?

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Personally, I believe that had Snowden simply disclosed that the government was collecting blanket information from communications entities he would have been able to remain in the US and likely would have been prosecuted, yet acquited by a jury of his peers. According to the detail coming out of the White House and the administration related to these activities and the success of these activities, they feel they can justify the extent of their data gathering. In effect, they are saying that it's no big deal. Hard to convict a guy for treason when what he released is no big deal.

    Snowden's problem is that he fled the country, potentially with additional corroborating data, potentially embarrassing to the administration, and that makes his actions far more suspect.
    Good afternoon, CJ!

    Ah, the life of a whistleblower can take many unseen twists and turns, can't it? Too bad, because he apparently did the public a service by letting the light of day shine on what was going on in secret! : :

  6. #76
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    Re: Is Edward Snowden a traitor or a patriot?

    Quote Originally Posted by CRUE CAB View Post
    Says the guy from Canada.
    The man is a criminal. Theft of information is just as big a deal as if I stole a truck at work.
    Its still a crime and due to the fact that US secret info was what he stole, he is a traitor to his nation.
    I hope he is found, brought back, given a fair trial and if convicted, sent to the gallows.
    What information did he thieve?
    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    Being a psychiatric patient does not mean that you are mentally ill.



  7. #77
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    Re: Is Edward Snowden a traitor or a patriot?

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    As a conservative, I can vouch that for at least one person that's just nonsense. It is perhaps the most liberal ideologue in a half century who sits in the White House who has expanded this program without apparent concern and it is the liberals of your country who are enforcing their sexual morality, as it relates to gay marriage and access to abortion etc., on your society.
    Gays want equality under the law. The right wing wants them second class.

    The right passed the patriot act.

  8. #78
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    Re: Is Edward Snowden a traitor or a patriot?

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    Good afternoon, CJ!

    Ah, the life of a whistleblower can take many unseen twists and turns, can't it? Too bad, because he apparently did the public a service by letting the light of day shine on what was going on in secret! : :
    Good afternoon Lady P - oppressively humid here in the northeast and it's not planning on easing until late this week - hope it's nicer for you down in Texas.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

  9. #79
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    Re: Is Edward Snowden a traitor or a patriot?

    Look at Padilla (who is NO hero) and how they disappeared him without much visibility. They can detain you indefinitely (ask anybody at Guantanamo) and you could stay in the system for decades which is the same as being convicted.

    The Patriot Act gives the government some really abusable powers. If it were me, I would not take a chance. Let me ask you - if Snowden returns voluntarily, he would not technically be a flight risk since he came back on his own - do you think he would be allowed a modest bail while waiting for trial? Or would they lock him up and delay the trial for 50 years for "security reasons"?

    I'm just discussing, not accusing. Personally, I don't trust the USG at all. Since 2001, our government has been furtive and harsh using 9/11 as an excuse for many things that were never previously accepted. We've become torturers and aggressors. Our current President has actually managed to be even less transparent than his not very nice predecessor.

    Let them try him in absentia. Then, there is a case for his surrender. There won't be a trial. This seems to be about revenge, not national security. It had to come out eventually. I don't know why they even tried tio be secretive. Its not like anybody can or will do anything about it. Look how righteous they are acting "sure we spy on you but we magically stopped 50 terrorist plots. We just failed to mention that we did this because we're too modest to take credit". Mmmmm, right. Modesty. Of course.


    (all the above is pure opinion. No facts were harmed in the production of this post)



    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    I agree with much of what you've said but I have to disagree that Snowden would have been buried somewhere and never gotten a trial - even a person accused of treason in America has the right to a public, jury trial and the many civil liberties organizations in America and the Supreme Court would see to it.

  10. #80
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    Re: Is Edward Snowden a traitor or a patriot?

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    And yet something being a law doesn't make it just. If the government were torturing children in dark rooms, and you knew about it, would you keep it to yourself because you don't want to become a criminal by revealing it?
    I'd report it to my superiors. If nothing seemed to happen based on that, I'd report it to the Inspector General's office. If still it seemed nothing happened with it, I'd leak it to the population anonymously so as to make sure the attrocities being commited where the story, not myself, since I wouldn't be doing it with the hope of being famous or going down as some kind of prolific "leaker".

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