View Poll Results: Patriot, Traitor, or something else?

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  • Traitor (Elaborate)

    19 31.67%
  • Patriot (Elaborate)

    25 41.67%
  • Other (Elaborate)

    12 20.00%
  • I don't know

    4 6.67%
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Thread: Is Edward Snowden a traitor or a patriot?

  1. #61
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    Re: Is Edward Snowden a traitor or a patriot?

    Quote Originally Posted by captainawesome View Post
    I agree, but it appears many on the right value following authority over liberty. If Snowden is imprisoned we will be like Stalin Russia in one decade.

    We are on the precipice.
    This has little or nothing to do with right or left ideology.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: Is Edward Snowden a traitor or a patriot?

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    Privacy of correspondence is a basic civil right. NOTHING justifies the government violating it. And certainly, the ends never justify the means. Since there is electronic communication, they're maybe abusing a legal loophole according to which emails are not snail mail letters -- which doesn't make it any less heinous.

    If the price for security is abandoning basic civil rights, such as privacy of correspondence, that price is too high. I'd rather accept a greater danger of terrorism or crime, than allowing the government reading my private mails without very good reason and substantial evidence against me.

    And by the way, if you were a non-Jewish German, life was much, much more safe and secure for you in Nazi Germany, as "private" crime (not by the government) was virtually non-existant -- does that mean this system was superior? I beg to differ.
    According to the supreme court, there is no expectation of privacy for phone calls, much less texting or internet search history or anything like that.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

  3. #63
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    Re: Is Edward Snowden a traitor or a patriot?

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    Privacy of correspondence is a basic civil right. NOTHING justifies the government violating it. And certainly, the ends never justify the means. Since there is electronic communication, they're maybe abusing a legal loophole according to which emails are not snail mail letters -- which doesn't make it any less heinous.

    If the price for security is abandoning basic civil rights, such as privacy of correspondence, that price is too high. I'd rather accept a greater danger of terrorism or crime, than allowing the government reading my private mails without very good reason and substantial evidence against me.

    And by the way, if you were a non-Jewish German, life was much, much more safe and secure for you in Nazi Germany, as "private" crime (not by the government) was virtually non-existant -- does that mean this system was superior? I beg to differ.
    Really? What about the basic civil rights of the 100,000+ Iraqi men, women, and children who were killed by us because Bush was able to use 9/11 as an excuse to invade Iraq?

    Yes, Nazi Germany was a domestic surveillance state, and so have been all the communist states. But you know what? SO HAVE WE! Look up what J. Edgar Hoover did sometime.

    I don't enjoy people being able to see what sites I've visited or what phone numbers I've called...but that's what governments do. We in the socialized democracies of the world are lucky in that our respective governments are much less likely to take overt action against those who are against the government...but every single government of any type will keep an eye on those who oppose it, foreign or domestic. To think that it will ever be otherwise is sheer naivete.

  4. #64
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    Re: Is Edward Snowden a traitor or a patriot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Josie View Post
    Are there any instances where breaking the law is the right thing to do?
    Depends on your moral values, doesn't it? Me, in this case, there are better ways to handle classified information you feel there are problems with.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  5. #65
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    Re: Is Edward Snowden a traitor or a patriot?

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    This has little or nothing to do with right or left ideology.
    Of course it does.

    Right wing ideology supports a police state to get terrorists and enforce their sexual morality.

  6. #66
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    Re: Is Edward Snowden a traitor or a patriot?

    Quote Originally Posted by MadLib View Post
    PRISM didn't seem to prevent the Boston bombing.
    And seat belts don't prevent all traffic deaths, either...but that doesn't mean that seat belts aren't a very, very good idea that save many, many lives.

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    Re: Is Edward Snowden a traitor or a patriot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    Snowden is not making a good case for himself based on the company he is keeping. Supposedly he is in Moscow preparing to fly to Ecuador, which is coincidently where Julian assange of wikileaks is hiding out.
    Actually, Julian Assange isn't in Ecuador. He is in the Ecuadorian Embassy in London and has been for the past year.

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    Re: Is Edward Snowden a traitor or a patriot?

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    Then the US government are criminals. I'm pretty sure that these surveillance programs violate many different kinds of constitutional and human right standards. If not, the system is seriously ****ed up and it's high time to finally make laws that prevent the government from grotesquely spitting into the face of Western values.

    Snowden is a hero fighting against a government that grossly oversteps its competence in an authoritarian fashion (and no, I don't think Obama is any more to blame than the Presidents in office before him).
    And I have stated a better system of oversight of confidential programs is needed.

    I would not call him a hero, since he specifically did not try the legal channels available to address the issue.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  9. #69
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    Re: Is Edward Snowden a traitor or a patriot?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    So you feel that each person may now freely pick and choose what classified material may be released?
    Personally, I believe that had Snowden simply disclosed that the government was collecting blanket information from communications entities he would have been able to remain in the US and likely would have been prosecuted, yet acquited by a jury of his peers. According to the detail coming out of the White House and the administration related to these activities and the success of these activities, they feel they can justify the extent of their data gathering. In effect, they are saying that it's no big deal. Hard to convict a guy for treason when what he released is no big deal.

    Snowden's problem is that he fled the country, potentially with additional corroborating data, potentially embarrassing to the administration, and that makes his actions far more suspect.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

  10. #70
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    Re: Is Edward Snowden a traitor or a patriot?

    To all -

    Notice that my bio says I "lean progressive". I am quite progressive (as can be seen here)...but that doesn't mean that liberal/progressive/Democratic views are always right - that's why I'm a contrarian. Sometimes - if only rarely - the conservatives are right. When it comes to Snowden and Bradley Manning, the conservatives are right.

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