View Poll Results: Patriot, Traitor, or something else?

Voters
60. You may not vote on this poll
  • Traitor (Elaborate)

    19 31.67%
  • Patriot (Elaborate)

    25 41.67%
  • Other (Elaborate)

    12 20.00%
  • I don't know

    4 6.67%
Page 5 of 23 FirstFirst ... 3456715 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 50 of 228

Thread: Is Edward Snowden a traitor or a patriot?

  1. #41
    Iconoclast
    DaveFagan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    wny
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:39 AM
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    7,290

    Re: Is Edward Snowden a traitor or a patriot?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    So you feel that each person may now freely pick and choose what classified material may be released?

    It is certain that the USA is using classification to hide law breaking, embarrassment, duplicity, atrocity, and a large number of items that are just being concealed from the taxpayers eyes. Obviously, it is a flawed system that needs independent review, but intelligence agencies will insist on keeping it in-house for the same reasons listed in the first sentence but will constantly parrot National Security and Terrorists. When law breaking, atrocity, etc. are revealed, the Citizenry must respond by supporting the person seeking the common good, the patriotic whistleblower. If you don't, you're just saying, "may I have another."

  2. #42
    Guru
    Morality Games's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Iowa
    Last Seen
    05-24-16 @ 10:00 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    3,733

    Re: Is Edward Snowden a traitor or a patriot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Josie View Post
    Are there any instances where breaking the law is the right thing to do?
    ... most pogroms and genocides are legally instituted.
    If you notice something good in yourself, give credit to God, not to yourself, but be certain the evil you commit is always your own and yours to acknowledge.

    St. Benedict

  3. #43
    Sometimes wrong

    ttwtt78640's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Uhland, Texas
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:51 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    34,544

    Re: Is Edward Snowden a traitor or a patriot?

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    It is certain that the USA is using classification to hide law breaking, embarrassment, duplicity, atrocity, and a large number of items that are just being concealed from the taxpayers eyes. Obviously, it is a flawed system that needs independent review, but intelligence agencies will insist on keeping it in-house for the same reasons listed in the first sentence but will constantly parrot National Security and Terrorists. When law breaking, atrocity, etc. are revealed, the Citizenry must respond by supporting the person seeking the common good, the patriotic whistleblower. If you don't, you're just saying, "may I have another."
    I can see some of your point but there are avenues to "blow the whistle" to your congress critter or perhaps those on the House/Senate intellegence committees. There is ample light being shined on this (and similar) programs within congress now. The unilateral decision to leak classified data directly to the public (and world in general) is not a logical "first step".
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  4. #44
    Engineer

    RabidAlpaca's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    American in Europe
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:15 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    14,554

    Re: Is Edward Snowden a traitor or a patriot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Stewart View Post
    As the question asks, is Snowden a traitor, patriot, or something else in your eyes? Why or why not?
    He exposed massive overreaches of our government. He's a hero, and a patriot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    When you choose to break the law, you are a criminal.
    And yet something being a law doesn't make it just. If the government were torturing children in dark rooms, and you knew about it, would you keep it to yourself because you don't want to become a criminal by revealing it?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    I can see some of your point but there are avenues to "blow the whistle" to your congress critter or perhaps those on the House/Senate intellegence committees. There is ample light being shined on this (and similar) programs within congress now. The unilateral decision to leak classified data directly to the public (and world in general) is not a logical "first step".
    If he leaked it to anyone unauthorized in the government, he'd be guilty of the same charge. How can you report wrong-doings that are classified? Only the people in charge of it can even know about it, and they're the ones in charge of it, so they already know about it, and will now be pissed that you're a liability.

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    In my view, Snowden is neither a traitor nor a patriot - had he disclosed the information while remaining in America, a true act of civil disobedience in order to shine a light on government misdeeds, he may have been a patriot, but by fleeing the country he lost that moral high ground.
    Quote Originally Posted by AliHajiSheik View Post
    Many would agree, but you can also be judged by what you do after breaking the law. Snowden isn't making himself look better.

    So he would've had to let himself get burned at the stake for you to consider him a patriot? Really?
    Last edited by RabidAlpaca; 06-24-13 at 02:54 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

  5. #45
    Discount Philosopher
    specklebang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Las Vegas
    Last Seen
    06-05-14 @ 08:26 PM
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    11,524

    Re: Is Edward Snowden a traitor or a patriot?

    Unless there is later indication that Snowden profited from his actions, I see a man who sacrificed his life for his country.

    Had he remained in America, under our draconian "Patriot Act" he might have been buried underground in a box for the rest of his life. He certainly wouldn't be allowed in open court since our furtive agencies have too much to lose.

    I hope he is given refuge and can live as normal a life as possible wherever he ends up.

    Our government has become increasingly powerful and evil. I doubt this will change anything but you have to try.

  6. #46
    Sage
    Glen Contrarian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Bernie to the left of me, Hillary to the right, here I am...
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:09 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    15,465

    Re: Is Edward Snowden a traitor or a patriot?

    Snowden is a traitor. Three weeks before the USS Abraham Lincoln deployed in August 2000, my office - the Security office - got a phone call from someone with a foreign-sounding voice who said that when we pulled into port overseas, they would blow up a ship next to ours. We pulled in to Dubai in early October - we were nervous and kept an eye on everything, but nothing happened. Four days after we departed Dubai, the USS Cole was bombed by a boat that pulled up next to it. In other words, that person knew something...and if we'd had PRISM then, not only would we have found the individual on short order, but we'd have found all those he had contact with...and one of those who helped plan the bombing of the Cole turned out to be one of the 9/11 hijackers. PRISM could have prevented 9/11, if we'd had it then, and by extension could have prevented the decade of right-wing neo-con insanity (and 5000 American military deaths and 100K+ Iraqi deaths) that followed.

    Likewise, Bradley Manning is a traitor. He's not on trail because of the video of us killing a reporter - he's on trail because he released 250,000 diplomatic cables, each and every one of which had the potential of either exposing agents and/or contacts, or exposing how we react to certain situations, and what assets we may or may not have.

  7. #47
    Sage
    Khayembii Communique's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Milwaukee, WI
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 12:31 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    7,879

    Re: Is Edward Snowden a traitor or a patriot?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    I can see some of your point but there are avenues to "blow the whistle" to your congress critter or perhaps those on the House/Senate intellegence committees. There is ample light being shined on this (and similar) programs within congress now. The unilateral decision to leak classified data directly to the public (and world in general) is not a logical "first step".
    A congressmen on TV admitted he gets these types of "whistleblower reports" weekly. Going to a congressperson does nothing. So what would the next logical step be in your opinion?
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

  8. #48
    Sometimes wrong

    ttwtt78640's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Uhland, Texas
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:51 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    34,544

    Re: Is Edward Snowden a traitor or a patriot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    A congressmen on TV admitted he gets these types of "whistleblower reports" weekly. Going to a congressperson does nothing. So what would the next logical step be in your opinion?
    Point taken, but was that even a first step taken in this case?
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  9. #49
    Sage
    German guy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Berlin, Germany
    Last Seen
    08-24-17 @ 06:57 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    5,187

    Re: Is Edward Snowden a traitor or a patriot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggen View Post
    Absolute unequivocal nonsense. I really expected more from you than that. The man took his secrets and left for Russia! What is there about treason you don't understand.

    As for spying, I don't give a crap. If they stop another 9/11 by listening to phone calls, good for them.
    Then you are an authoritarian person who hates civil and human rights, as simple as that.

    This "national security" nonsense to justify the most blatant violations of Western values is right from the Nazis' playbook, and people who swallow it will swallow it in any random other case of violation too. And no, this is not godwinning anything. In this case, it is 100% true and absolutely appropriate.

    A government that will break the law to spy on the private communication of its citizens will randomly arrest people too, will deny their people fair trials, will enact labor and death camps too -- unless the people stops them. And no, "fighting a foreign enemy" is no excuse (it wasn't valid either when the Nazis used that in 1933).
    "Not learning from mistakes is worse than committing mistakes. When you don't allow yourself to make mistakes, it is hard to be tolerant of others and it does not allow even God to be merciful."

  10. #50
    Sage
    German guy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Berlin, Germany
    Last Seen
    08-24-17 @ 06:57 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    5,187

    Re: Is Edward Snowden a traitor or a patriot?

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    He exposed massive overreaches of our government. He's a hero, and a patriot.


    And yet something being a law doesn't make it just. If the government were torturing children in dark rooms, and you knew about it, would you keep it to yourself because you don't want to become a criminal by revealing it?



    If he leaked it to anyone unauthorized in the government, he'd be guilty of the same charge. How can you report wrong-doings that are classified? Only the people in charge of it can even know about it, and they're the ones in charge of it, so they already know about it, and will now be pissed that you're a liability.





    So he would've had to let himself get burned at the stake for you to consider him a patriot? Really?
    Spot on! Couldn't agree more.

    I'm actually deeply disturbed how many Americans buy this "national security" BS rhetoric, even when it's about serious violations of most basic Western values -- and then, the same people have the nerve of calling Europe "socialist" or "tyrannic".
    "Not learning from mistakes is worse than committing mistakes. When you don't allow yourself to make mistakes, it is hard to be tolerant of others and it does not allow even God to be merciful."

Page 5 of 23 FirstFirst ... 3456715 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •