View Poll Results: Patriot, Traitor, or something else?

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  • Traitor (Elaborate)

    19 31.67%
  • Patriot (Elaborate)

    25 41.67%
  • Other (Elaborate)

    12 20.00%
  • I don't know

    4 6.67%
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Thread: Is Edward Snowden a traitor or a patriot?

  1. #211
    Advisor greyhat's Avatar
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    Is Edward Snowden a traitor or a patriot?

    Quote Originally Posted by captainawesome View Post
    Gitmo is real.
    Yes it is; we pay Fidel $1 million rent for it. It's on the map- duh.

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    Re: Is Edward Snowden a traitor or a patriot?

    Quote Originally Posted by greyhat View Post
    That was Abu Ghraib- not Cuba. Your geography is a bit rusty...
    Oh so we tortured at Abu Ghraib, but haven't at gitmo?

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    Is Edward Snowden a traitor or a patriot?

    Quote Originally Posted by captainawesome View Post
    Oh so we tortured at Abu Ghraib, but haven't at gitmo?
    You tell me- you seem to have all the answers..

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    Re: Is Edward Snowden a traitor or a patriot?

    Quote Originally Posted by greyhat View Post
    A leader? LMFAOL, leader of cowardice perhaps. He broke his secrecy oath, the laws about classified info and he ran off to nirvana?! Please!

    Who is HE to determine that this information should come out? Is he above all three branches of government and their respective roles in such a matter?!

    Why don't we just anoint him Supreme Leader of America- he can be the sole ruler of all and make all the choices for us.. We have a government that does shadowy and questionably immoral things but that's what the world of espionage is- its covert and clandestine for a reason!! And some little ****tard like Snowden things he and he alone is capable of overruling an entire system of government?

    He is a hero only to the ignorant who enjoy the freedoms provided to them by the same people they attack- the irony!

    He is a coward- nothing more than that.
    Yes, a leader. In such a way that our government can't possibly think that those whom work for them will uphold their lies and deceit. Ran off to nirvana. I never said he did. Nor do I believe it. But, I do believe Big Brother instills fear among the people (Snowden being one of them). Do you think our government would give him the red-carpet treatment? Nah. I'd be willing to bet they'd blame his "death" on some stupid car accident. Which he (IMO) fears as a highly possible outcome.

    Ah, so everyone living under this fascist blanket should all just keep their mouths shut? I don't know about you, but I'm not one to be a meat-puppet. I'm glad HE came out with this. I'm guessing you're not a fan of Toto in the Wizard of Oz...

    ...anoint Supreme Leader of America... sole ruler of all. That's funny. What's even more funny, you're "okay" with our sneaky gov. doing "shadowy and questionably immoral things". That right there is, how did you put it? Ah yes, cowardice. Big Bro's shadow won't be cast for much longer. Especially if the people of this nation stand up.

    I don't recall calling Snowden a hero....
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    Re: Is Edward Snowden a traitor or a patriot?

    Quote Originally Posted by greyhat View Post
    You tell me- you seem to have all the answers..
    Yes I would think so.

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    Re: Is Edward Snowden a traitor or a patriot?

    I think he is a traitor personally but I do not think that he should be treated as one. The Obama administration was outed as doing something dirty, and instead of being upset that somebody outed their secrets, respect that they were in the wrong and pardon him. On the same hand even though it was wrong to do, it concerns me that its ok to leak government secrets. It's a secret for a reason. This could lead to others trying to be "heroes" by leaking other information that they might think is dirty but really isn't. If we celebrate Snowden as a hero it creates a slippery slope for the future, at the same time it does the same to persecute him as a traitor.
    "Conservatism is the blind and fear-filled worship of dead radicals."
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  7. #217
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    Is Edward Snowden a traitor or a patriot?

    Quote Originally Posted by CK8528 View Post
    Yes, a leader. In such a way that our government can't possibly think that those whom work for them will uphold their lies and deceit. Ran off to nirvana. I never said he did. Nor do I believe it. But, I do believe Big Brother instills fear among the people (Snowden being one of them). Do you think our government would give him the red-carpet treatment? Nah. I'd be willing to bet they'd blame his "death" on some stupid car accident. Which he (IMO) fears as a highly possible outcome.

    Ah, so everyone living under this fascist blanket should all just keep their mouths shut? I don't know about you, but I'm not one to be a meat-puppet. I'm glad HE came out with this. I'm guessing you're not a fan of Toto in the Wizard of Oz...

    ...anoint Supreme Leader of America... sole ruler of all. That's funny. What's even more funny, you're "okay" with our sneaky gov. doing "shadowy and questionably immoral things". That right there is, how did you put it? Ah yes, cowardice. Big Bro's shadow won't be cast for much longer. Especially if the people of this nation stand up.

    I don't recall calling Snowden a hero....
    The NSA's activities are programs created by law, supervised by the judicial system and implemented by the executive branch- that's checks and balances. We can argue the morality of something, but morality and legality are different terms. Snowden violated the law and is therefore now a fugitive. He is no whistleblower for he neither followed protocol to classify as one; nor did he expose illegal activities.

    I'm not ok with anything per se; am simply being rational. In the age of digital communications one can reasonably expect the NSA's activities to fall within their domain and area of operations. The collection and analyzing of information in this case is SIGINT, an intelligence discipline as old as communications- we're no longer listening thru walls, we just pickup fragments of data and try to piece together what is happening.

    Corporations do this all the time; it's called advertising. Google reads your email in order to place an ad; Groupon reads your phone's GPS to get you a discount, all are examples of data mining thru the use of technology. The NSA isn't trying to listen or read your communications to sell you something, they're trying to find the next crazy guy plotting harm to the US and our interest... That's what they were created to do. What do you think they do, play Xbox with the Russians??

    Governments are always spying on one another; it's a tradecraft worthy of its own thread, and yes, in the process of implementing policy we do things that some men would find immoral: we've helped overthrow governments, even democratically elected ones (Guatemala, Iran etc); create insurrections in foreign lands; recruit foreign spies to steal information for is etc. We may even rendition unlawful combatants into obscurity, sometimes they may even get treated questionably, if not by us, but by those we outsource these tasks to. All of these things can be classified as shadowy, immoral and even unethical, but within the context of global balance of power these are but necessary evils needed to preserve the status quo that so favorably affords the feeble minded people who question the very existence of such structure, the freedom to exist and question it. That's the irony; people don't appreciate what it takes to keep the spokes attached to the wheel. It's not pretty, it's not glamorous, but someone must do it.

    People like Snowden have betrayed the very system that has afforded him the luxury of taking a breath and in the process has harmed the work of thousands of well intended people.

    He is, and will always be a coward. He has no backbone to speak off.

  8. #218
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    Re: Is Edward Snowden a traitor or a patriot?

    Quote Originally Posted by greyhat View Post
    The NSA's activities are programs created by law, supervised by the judicial system and implemented by the executive branch- that's checks and balances. We can argue the morality of something, but morality and legality are different terms. Snowden violated the law and is therefore now a fugitive. He is no whistleblower for he neither followed protocol to classify as one; nor did he expose illegal activities.

    I'm not ok with anything per se; am simply being rational. In the age of digital communications one can reasonably expect the NSA's activities to fall within their domain and area of operations. The collection and analyzing of information in this case is SIGINT, an intelligence discipline as old as communications- we're no longer listening thru walls, we just pickup fragments of data and try to piece together what is happening.

    Corporations do this all the time; it's called advertising. Google reads your email in order to place an ad; Groupon reads your phone's GPS to get you a discount, all are examples of data mining thru the use of technology. The NSA isn't trying to listen or read your communications to sell you something, they're trying to find the next crazy guy plotting harm to the US and our interest... That's what they were created to do. What do you think they do, play Xbox with the Russians??

    Governments are always spying on one another; it's a tradecraft worthy of its own thread, and yes, in the process of implementing policy we do things that some men would find immoral: we've helped overthrow governments, even democratically elected ones (Guatemala, Iran etc); create insurrections in foreign lands; recruit foreign spies to steal information for is etc. We may even rendition unlawful combatants into obscurity, sometimes they may even get treated questionably, if not by us, but by those we outsource these tasks to. All of these things can be classified as shadowy, immoral and even unethical, but within the context of global balance of power these are but necessary evils needed to preserve the status quo that so favorably affords the feeble minded people who question the very existence of such structure, the freedom to exist and question it. That's the irony; people don't appreciate what it takes to keep the spokes attached to the wheel. It's not pretty, it's not glamorous, but someone must do it.

    People like Snowden have betrayed the very system that has afforded him the luxury of taking a breath and in the process has harmed the work of thousands of well intended people.

    He is, and will always be a coward. He has no backbone to speak off.
    I respect your opinion.
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  9. #219
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    Is Edward Snowden a traitor or a patriot?

    ^ likewise thanks

  10. #220
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    Re: Is Edward Snowden a traitor or a patriot?

    Quote Originally Posted by captainawesome View Post
    Gitmo is real.
    And it's a secret? Apparently not a very well kept secret, since you know about it.
    "Groups with guitars are on the way out, Mr. Epstein"

    Dick Rowe, A & R man
    Decca Records
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