View Poll Results: Patriot, Traitor, or something else?

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  • Traitor (Elaborate)

    19 31.67%
  • Patriot (Elaborate)

    25 41.67%
  • Other (Elaborate)

    12 20.00%
  • I don't know

    4 6.67%
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Thread: Is Edward Snowden a traitor or a patriot?

  1. #131
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    Re: Is Edward Snowden a traitor or a patriot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    And such a wonderful criminal he was.
    Maybe but he certainly was one.

  2. #132
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    Re: Is Edward Snowden a traitor or a patriot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    You should read up on PRISM sometime - because with PRISM, instead of having to wade through the phone companies' records and hope you find something, you have a database of phone calls that you cross-check with other numbers of known or suspected terrorists...and the picture becomes clearer much more quickly. What most people don't understand is that PRISM isn't a system of listening to what everyone says or reading what everyone writes. It's a DATABASE of phone numbers and IP addresses and e-mail addresses that makes the search for connections much easier. The government doesn't have a fraction of the number of people needed to listen to or read everyone's crap - it'd be like physically searching for the proverbial needle inside a haystack of haystacks of haystacks. All they really need are the numbers and addresses, as any database wonk should understand instinctively.
    If they only gathered info on people who are connected to established suspects, I would have no objection to the program. My issue is that they are collecting data on virtually everyone. That data can be used to determine much about an organization or person's friends, family, interests, political views etc. The government should not be compiling such information on people without a reasonable suspicion that an individual is guilty of a crime, even if the government is not misusing or even using the information at this time.

  3. #133
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    Re: Is Edward Snowden a traitor or a patriot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    If they only gathered info on people who are connected to established suspects, I would have no objection to the program. My issue is that they are collecting data on virtually everyone. That data can be used to determine much about an organization or person's friends, family, interests, political views etc. The government should not be compiling such information on people without a reasonable suspicion that an individual is guilty of a crime, even if the government is not misusing or even using the information at this time.
    They spy on conservative groups now until a dem r is elected then they spy on dems.

  4. #134
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    Re: Is Edward Snowden a traitor or a patriot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Serious View Post
    Your illusion of security should not trump the rights of the Citizens of the Republic.
    Hardly an illusion of security. I want the government to know about the next bombers before they strike. The age of innocence has long since passed.
    "Groups with guitars are on the way out, Mr. Epstein"

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  5. #135
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    Re: Is Edward Snowden a traitor or a patriot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    he's a whistleblower who started an important conversation that we should have been having years ago. as for "traitor" or "patriot," those are buzzwords designed to elicit an emotional reaction. i pick other.
    No, you pretty clearly picked patriot. Somebody who betrays national security interests to everyone - including our enemies - is a traitor.
    "Groups with guitars are on the way out, Mr. Epstein"

    Dick Rowe, A & R man
    Decca Records
    London, 1962

  6. #136
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    Re: Is Edward Snowden a traitor or a patriot?

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    Then you are an authoritarian person who hates civil and human rights, as simple as that.

    This "national security" nonsense to justify the most blatant violations of Western values is right from the Nazis' playbook, and people who swallow it will swallow it in any random other case of violation too. And no, this is not godwinning anything. In this case, it is 100% true and absolutely appropriate.

    A government that will break the law to spy on the private communication of its citizens will randomly arrest people too, will deny their people fair trials, will enact labor and death camps too -- unless the people stops them. And no, "fighting a foreign enemy" is no excuse (it wasn't valid either when the Nazis used that in 1933).

    Absolute bull****. Any country that doesn't take whatever steps it deems necessary to protect the lives of its citizens doesn't deserve to exist. Your comparison to Nazi Germany is ludicrous.

    What 'foreign enemy' were the Nazis fighting in 1933?
    "Groups with guitars are on the way out, Mr. Epstein"

    Dick Rowe, A & R man
    Decca Records
    London, 1962

  7. #137
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    Re: Is Edward Snowden a traitor or a patriot?

    Quote Originally Posted by captainawesome View Post
    Maybe but he certainly was one.
    Sometimes the people need a criminal and other times they need a band of them.

  8. #138
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    Re: Is Edward Snowden a traitor or a patriot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggen View Post
    No, you pretty clearly picked patriot. Somebody who betrays national security interests to everyone - including our enemies - is a traitor.
    that's sort of a "with us or against us" false dichotomy. my opinion is that i'm glad he started a conversation that we should have had a long time ago. many of us have been wary about this kind of program for many years now. however, i'm not ready to put his picture on a t-shirt, and i don't support everyone with security clearance making all of the info that they have access to public. i don't know his full motivation for doing this, and neither does anyone else. i suppose that we'll learn more as the story develops.

  9. #139
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    Re: Is Edward Snowden a traitor or a patriot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggen View Post
    Hardly an illusion of security. I want the government to know about the next bombers before they strike. The age of innocence has long since passed.
    In order to know such information it is necessary they invade the privacy of all people. Why do you ask the people to give up their privacy in exchange for a possible danger?

  10. #140
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    Re: Is Edward Snowden a traitor or a patriot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    I don't recall a rule saying that committing civil disobedience or being a whistleblower requires making yourself a martyr.
    Depending on what you do after you blow the whistle, you may make it veeeeeery hard to even call you a whistleblower.
    Snowden has been making it harder every day.
    Or ... to put it another way ... does the Snowden-as-whistleblower meme require him to make additional disclosures to parties who are very unfriendly to the USA?

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